Another AV Mana Post

You do realize it does the same damage as a mounted artillary base gun, is mobile, has longer range, can't be rendered and has an instant setup time. Still dont think its OP?

Spear phalanx Turret = 1250 after 175 m

AV Mana Turret = 1000

It'd be nice to finally have some dev input on this because the range issue has been an obvious problem for a year now. The fact that they "nerfed" the AV turrets to 1000m range to "fix" it indicates they have no idea what the real problem was, probably because it's not apparent when staring at statistics spreadsheets.

i think AV turrets are fine as they are, its the last single good universal weapon left from long time ago.. it would be a shame to canimalize it

not to many use it anyhow do to the stationary nature and the vulnerability... the few people who find a good spot once in a blue moon deserve the kills they get

if anything then give the wall/tower turrets more health points to compensate for the slight difference in distance

Im not sure what server you play on but they come out when armor comes out on my server which is all the time.

As it stands the only real issues with AV turret's is how short the cooldown is to deploy fresh turrets, and the obvious rendering issue.

AV turrets have been nerfed somewhat, and with the splash damage reduction they no longer farm infantry with impunity like they used to. We can collectively ignore the 1000m limit that they now have, since that doesn't change much of anything.

Currently imo, AV turret's have enough restrictions on them to give tankers a fair chance at dealing with them. They must be placed on flat terrain, the engineer now must stay on the turret in order to guide the missile effectively, An AV turret does not guide around terrain obstacles well if at all, ergo the turret must be in line of sight of the tank both ways to fire, and let's not forget than an engineer on a turret is a headshotbox for an infiltrator.

Great concept, but anyone who uses it, knows how easily abused this turret is at extreme ranges. Three engineers can sit upon a tower defense and stay well out of range of render, whilst decimating an entire tank column attacking a base some 700m away. We are talking ranges of 600m + here, a game breaking mechanic.

I'm not one to run around screaming OP this and OP that, but that range and render need to be adjusted within reason. I'd say leave everything else alone tho, as the turret is a valid and fair AV tool for ops, even if redeployable within a very short time.

how about just putting a timer on it , you can only deploy one every 120 seconds, irrelevant if the turret gets destroyed or not... because what i saw people deploy one, shoot once or twice then they run away so they won't get shoot.. i think that would be more then enough nerfting

i dont see a problem with the distance , if the turret can see the tank , then the tank can see the turret .. if not then some people have some technical issue.. because i sure can see anyone until they only one pixel on the screen

If you know it's there, shoot it. Even if it's not rendering you can still hit it. Confirmed this in VR, and it's happened to me many times.

A single turret isn't really OP, a tank should be able to dodge or destroy the turret in a 1v1, unless the tank driver does something silly.

4-5 turrets working together could be considered OP, but then so is anything in numbers in this game.

Not true.

If you can't see it, you can't hit it. VR does not behave like the main game.

The only serious problem with the AV MANA turret (aside from QOL issues) is that it can be used from outside render range, which means it is invulnerable to return fire. Even if the tank shell lands EXACTLY on the turret, the attack is done using client-side hit detection and as such no hit is registered because the client (the tank) is not rendering anything to be seen.

As such, in order to be fair the turret MUST be visible to any target it can engage. Otherwise it's essentially an invulnerability hack.

There is an additional related issue, which is that if an engineer releases the turret then the engineer himself is no longer targetable at ranges beyond 300m, even if the turret is. This would be solved by making the turret explode on death with a fairly sizeable kill radius, meaning if the engineer is still near the turret he'll get taken out in the explosion. It'd also mean nests of the things would need a bit of spacing, to avoid a chain reaction.

Outside of this there's balance discussions to be had - but those are discussions, and thus littered with opinion masquerading as fact.

Have devs confirmed this? I've seen turrets hit outside of render range, usually by other turrets.

Without spotting it (using the spot function), beyond around 300m they don't normally render. You have to, while being shot at, pinpoint the source, figure out the aiming, then hope there's only one AV turret.

They can only be hit if someone has spotted them, which can sometimes take a while, since you need to find the few pixels that they occupy at extreme ranges.

Wow. So any infantry is fair game for your tank and thats not OP even tho they cant kill you under any circumstances without you seeing them and or running off to keep from being killed by C4 or lock ons yet the one infantry you cant kill is OP. Why dont you get an AV turret and start farming tankers? It's not near as easy as you make it sound. The circumstances have to be just right. On an open terrain the AV turret is toast. You would just rush him and kill him once you got close enough to see him or ....run him over.

Hit detection being client-side has been so confirmed on so many levels that it's not even up for debate. Arguing that client-side hit detection doesn't happen would be like arguing that NC don't have shotguns.

Yes.

Because your statement is hyperbole.

Infantry CAN kill tanks under circumstances beyond the AV MANA turret. HA AV weapons. AV MAXes. C4. Tank mines.

If you are arguing that you can't kill a tank by running at it with a pistol... try doing the same against a HA with a suppression weapon and a superior position and tell me how well you do.

Now imagine that the same HA is invisible, cannot take damage and can still hit you just fine without becoming visible. Sound fair to you?

It seems like a convenient argument to make where you can arbitrarily decide what is and is not balanced at a whim.

Mate, OK, I understand this part. But please explain that how can experience save any tanker from doom, when 7-8 AV Mana turrets are picking targets off one by one... Experience here helps nothing. One second you are there, the next, you are not. In intense scenarios, you may not even hear the AV Mana turret firing, if it is beyond the draw range, maybe you can catch a glimpse of the rocket glow, but that's pretty much it. You'll have near no warnings, or no time to save your vehicle.

That video really doesn't help the "against" argument, since the turret barely scratches the tank, and it get's blown up pretty quickly. Nothing in that video was OP. All it has is some guy saying that "the shot went right through him", but we don't actually see anything. For all we know, he missed. Stop posting this video in these threads, because it doesn't show anything.

Thank you for giving a proper answer.

I agree with this, nothing can save a lone tank for 4+ AV turrets. But surely you would be in the same situation if there were 4+ lock-ons heading for you? Or 4+ dumb fires? 1+ light assault with C4? In numbers, anything in this game can be OP. A single AV turret isn't really that OP. It's max range probably needs reeling in a bit, and it's render distance probably needs extending. What we don't want to see is this thing nerfed in to oblivion. 300m range is too short. What are the dumbfire launcher max ranges, 400m? Why should a stationary turret have a shorter range than a dumbfire launcher?

My suggestion:-

• Max range in it's current form to 500m
• After 500m projectile velocity starts to drop off until 1000m where the projectile will explode/drop.

AV mana turret needs a theme song: