Why should anyone prefer PA shotguns to SMG?

PA's allow you to be hyper aggressive and it not automatically be suicidal. I don't use shotguns much because I am in a competitive outfit (TIW) and most competitive matches prohibit them. But, on live, when I'm feeling especially frisky, I'll grab one for a tower fight and go to town.

The biggest advantage PA's offer is that you can be taken by surprise and still win in CQC. With any other weapon, including SMG's, the axiom ubiquitously applies, "He who shoots 2nd, dies 1st". So, it's very useful in a chaotic fight, like a tower fight, when your situational awareness is overloaded.

SMGs are fantastic on infiltrators, but wouldn't use them on other classes. Mostly because you get LMGs on heavy, carbine/shotgun on LA, and carbine for engineer. Basically if I can I'm going to use an LMG for the mag size, or a carbine for the better range. I tend not to choose shotguns in a serious fight, since even in the shortest ranged fights there will be enemies outside your effective range. But they're fun occasionally.

So really I never compare pump-action shotguns with SMGs. If I decide a fight is too long-ranged for a shotgun, the next step up is a high-DPS carbine. Guns like the GD-7F are basically a hybrid between the ultra-fast kills of a shotgun and the medium-range capabilities of a carbine.

You may not be able to take a pump action everywhere you can take an SMG, but don't even try to argue PA shotguns aren't the best weapons in towers.

Auto-Shotties perform way better than PAs. The OHK shotties are not reliable due to Hit detection and the COF move affecting the whole spread. You can miss shots an adad-ing targets easily. Autos also have the highest DPS. As TR I get killed by Pistons frequently but rarely by PAs.
When playing NC I used all shotties extensively and always came back to the Piston.

because pumpactions are fun. i like the challenge to take my time, slowly line up a shot and fill that mofo who is shooting me with buckshot (or plasma particles in my case)

i started using my phobos pumpaction shotgun recently because i noticed i completely lack any trigger discipline when using autoshotguns as i quickly unload the weapon in any direction once i see an opponent really close to me. this has killed me many times as a result. this isnt the case with a pumpaction anymore. with such a low-firerate weapon, you NEED to aim properly in order to land a precise shot and you know that. otherwise you wont survive that engagement.

that said, i have long admired successful pumpaction shotgun users, even if i was killed by them. unlike crybabies who say pumpaction shotguns are skillless, i actually consider pumpactions pretty hard to use:
once you're outside your effective range (beyond 15m), you're doomed with a pumpaction.
once you miss a shot in a 1vs1 faceoff, you're doomed with a pumpaction.
once you engage a group of targets (which you could defeat with an lmg), you're doomed with a pumpaction.
^all these things should actually make a pumpaction shotgun user a respectable player as it is a very high-risk/high-reward situation to use them, but whiners gonna whine nonetheless


also smgs are for cloaking infiltrator cowards (god it's such an amazing feeling when that cloaker thinks he's about to own me with his puny smg and then i just one-shot him with my pumpaction shotgun at closerange)

What about semi-auto shotguns compared to auto and PA?

The real question is why anyone would use a PA when you have a semi-auto for only 250 certs.

Only answer I've yet found is auraxium medals...

If I was a terrible player who couldn't for the life of me keep my aim on target, I'd certaintly use a PA.

because semi autos, after they unncessarily have been included in the shotgun DPS nerf months ago, are borderline useful compared to carbines with "only 50% more DPS" while you can't shoot them to the head beyond 3m if you dont weant to miss half of your pellets. plus, the headsshot modifier is 1,5 for shotguns (i think) and missing first shots will be punished hard.
So you have to get really close to make them useful over carbines. and that makes you vulnarable to auto-shotties and PAs.

Uhm, you have to get really close to make any shotgun useful. But the semis have a much larger effective range than both the autos and PAs. Autos have abysmal spread, limiting their range, and PAs are useless if they don't one hit, again limiting their range. Not only does this give the semis an edge in hunting anyone that isn't a shotgun user, but it also gives them some options in shotgun on shotgun fights.

If you want a really inflexible weapon, that will work good at close range but get you killed a lot, grab a PA.

If you want a more flexible weapon, that will work just as well (and in many cases, better) and get you killed a lot less, grab a semi.

PA definitely gets you more hate tells, though. So if you're going for those, it's the obvious choice. But I'd imagine SMG infil probably gets a few hate tells too, so that could also be viable!

PA is satisfying, SMGs are just a bullet hose.

Autos have spread 4, semis 3.5 and 3, PAs 3.

semis have a tighter spread than autos and autos require recoil control. once mastered that reduces the range disadvantage and as ROF makes up for wasted pellets and damage fall-off is the same that will reduce TTK too. spread isn't everything.
so yes, you get a bit more range, but not much, if you use the Auto right. but you give up the advantage of the Auto being the ultimate CQC spraying gun and it is significantly easier to kill a PA user with an auto than with a semi
semis are either better with DPM (3.5 semi) or do offer noticably better range (3 semi). they don't have better range over the PAs but are much more forgiving. thats not the same thing.
I used to play for a while with both a lasersighted Sweeper, Mauler (and Claw) because the laser makes the spread more consistent instead of narrowing it. thats why many people think that the laser doesn't help at all.

At shotgun ranges you compete with shotguns, SMGs and Carbines. there is no distance where a semi-auto shotgun is best. it doesnt kill faster than an SMG/ Carb shot to the head and loses at 0-6m vs PAs and Autos.

they are not bad they will just let you die pretty often after scoring one perfect shot. dissatisfying to me.

Problem with shotguns in general, to a lesser degree with the Jackhammer:

killing 1-3 enemies is manageble but after that you find yourself standing in a spot totally non-ideal for shotguns and then you get killed from 15-50 m.
so yes, 2m more range helps with that but imho not enough over a CQC carbine shot to the head. I am performing better with CQC carbines after adjusting my playstyle, even in towers. but you have to shoot to the head. And I get killed by way more autos than semi autos (and PAs). don't think autos are used that much more often over PAs and semis after playing (and playing against) all variants for months.
But I tend to never stop moving while shooting, Performance on stationary targets or even HAs (non shotgun users) is a different thing again.

edit (another one):

getting exactly 225 RPM out of it by manually clicking while not messing up aim is another thing. on average this number will be a bit lower in CQC near melee fighting. its just another thing you can mess up. unless you put them on auto

that said, a PA shotty is best used while standing still. you will outdamage anygun at 0-8 m but don't mess up your COF which affects the whole spread. The Auto can be used on the run much more reliably. the Semi is between them, potentially weaker to the other two if those are used to their strengths

Spoken like a true forum-warrior. Try to use a PA-shotgun exclusively for your CQB needs for a month and then tell me how easy it's to hit moving targets at point-blank under what is often laggy environments. People move. Tracking a target at mid-range is not that hard, but given the range of a PA-shotgun high-speed movement means getting a miss if even a few inches is easy, and with a PA, that usually means the difference between a 2-shot kill and a OHK. That kind of mistake can be fatal, with ease.

@ Topic:

Why use Pump-action shotguns over SMG's?

Flavor. *boom* cha-ka *boom* cha-ka *boom* has a nicer ring to it than tek-tek-tek-tek-tek-tek-tek-tek-tek and always will. Only song that trumps the nice ring of a PA in action is the chain-gun's siren-wail.

PA and even semi-autos sans slugs are for point holding, or sieges on areas where the maximum distance between you and the enemy is probably no greater than 10 m.

If you have a long stretch of land to traverse, or are in a place with long, open hallways, then you're not using the right weapon for the right situation.

The SMG loses to a shotgun up to 10 meters, then it wins, so it's not really a valid comparison.

just played my brothers char (same account) and reactivated the Mauler with extended mags. didnt want to buy a Barrage for my TR. had a nice killing streak at a small base. then I went to a big fight 12-24 vs. 24-48
got KDR 1 there, every time I could close in range to kill 1 I was left standing in the wrong place for the next guy shooting at me.

its a good gun but I dont know a single map in PS2 where shotties outperform CQC carbs post nanoweave change. you always end up chasing targets (which also increases TTK) with shotties, thats the main problem. look at the killboards, typical shotgun killstreak is 1-4 kills. the 3.0 semis arent better enuff than the autos at this when you fight machine guns while being a bit worse (but still good) at point blank.

I'd say its a really good gun for a 6 vs. 6 and I like it better than a PA but the average TTK of a CQC carb at 6m shot to the head with same skill as shooting the semi-Auto at the upper chest is almost the same as you can shoot first with the carb on average while the shottie is still running at you. thats hipfireing of course.
If the other guy knows you are carrying a shotty thats a big disadvantage for you.
if you keep standing in a corner to defend stuff a shotgun is good but due to initiative being rewared by server latency standing in a corner is never a good idea

So much shotgun hate out there. It may be easier to hit some pellets than miss with a regular gun, but shotguns have other limitations that balance them.

-you must control your range of engagement more than most other weapons. Go use a shotgun at an amp station (the old ones) and you will understand this.
-you have very limited shots per magazine, you have to make every shot count, especially if you have to fight 2 or more enemies.

As for the topic, pump actions are very satisfying, but if I had to choose one for a serious fight I'd take the SMG. SMGs are amazing, I will even take them for my HA (mainly because I've Auraxiumed Jackhammer and Anchor) you can easily take out another HA who has an LMG.

Here are two possible scenarios for you;

You're a light assault. Your job is to use your mobility to give your teammates any kind of advantage over your enemy. It can be done by clearing every single one of them or over charging shields etc.

You fly up on buildings and land behind the enemy cover.

Pump-action Shotgun Scenario;
You kill up to 6 men before the enemy realizes what the heck is happening. You're out of ammo. Someone finally realizes you but your commisioner outguns his gun with a pew-pew-pew. You manage to get 2 commi-knife kills before you go down. 9 kills.

SMG Scenario;
You knife one of them then start spraying on a guy in the head, goes down fast. Then turn to the other guy and kill him, but you gotta reload. Enemy realizes you faster this time since your bullets are flying all over the room and they make much more noise. So you put out your pistol, lets say commi again. You take 2 commi-knife kills and go down. 5 kills.

Pump-actions can OHK and this pretty much lets you end a CQC with no trade at all. You just kill and go away.