It still just feels underpowered to me. I used it on a couple of passes and shot at infantry and it feels weak. I think it took about 4 shots to kill a heavy. Given the nature of the gun I am unsure if all pellets hit, but it was with in ten meters of the vanguard. I am not sure how the other factions AI weapons are since the test server rework and would like to hear from others on this as I think in the time it took me to kill a heavy other factions AI would out perform it. Maybe I am wrong, I haven't tried the other factions AI on test yet. The aim feels a little off to me. Maybe it is because it has a crosshair for a .50 cal and it fires a shotgun spread. Even though the spread is pretty tight it just feels off to me. Maybe a circle like the jackhammer would be better. This is just how I'd prefer it, maybe others feel differently. I think this weapon could use a few more tweaks, also as I mention I'd like to hear from other empires that have been on the test. Let me know how the C85 compares to your AI weapon and what it is like to face it. I personally think in its current state it is not intimidating anyone. Might I suggest a triple shot like the jack hammer?
Three indirect hits of the Marauder to kill. Two for the M40 Fury. Not sure about the PPA. Whats the clip size? Can you increase it? Sounds like they are getting closer.....just not there yet and then there is the issue of range. They really should scrap this idea and go back to the drawing board.
I'm sorry but there has been no meaningful update of this weapon. It's essentially the same as before. Anti-Infrantry requires splash damage. The Fury, Maurader and PPA would also be useless without it. I have tooled around in Live with a C85 harasser and it is just short of impossible to hit moving targets or even stationary targets while moving. The majority of kills I have gotten are from stopping near a parked sundy and killing stationary players. I assume it's financial reasons you don't want to change the type of weapon it is which I can understand. Why design a new weapon if you can possible salvage what you've already invested in. If that's the case I would suggest increasing the spread 5x in both directions and increasing the pellet count to fill that spread. Then attempt the balance the damage/clip capacity/reload time accordingly. AI harassing is one of my favorite things to do and the reason I don't use the C85 is cause I can't hit anything with it. I can't hit anything with the Fury, Marauder or PPA either but because of splash damage they are still great weapons.
It's a joke. Look at the stats on Live compared to PTS. The PTS version has less damage, slower ROF and it's damage per pellet is significantly reduced. Additionally, it cannot damage heavy armor. It's horrible and the Weapon Devs need to get their heads straight and stop being stupid. Get with the program and buff the C85 and at least do some justice for the WORST weapon in the NC arsenal since Beta. It's a direct fire AI weapon. It needs range, velocity and killing power. Give it the Air Hammer stats with a 6 round magazine (upgrade line up to 10) and 12 pellets, 1.33 spread. Done. Get this going and move on. I'm sure the Weapon Devs are tried of hearing NC complain about the C85.
They raised the rof to 180 on the latest build and lowered the damage to 120 per pellet, the gun performance beyond 10 meters is a COMPLETE JOKE. It shoots sugared almonds..
I think it's fine now. I was using it on test before, and I think it fights nicely with the Kobalt and Basalisk as the other AI options. The tighter spread and bigger mag fixed a lot of the issues I had with it, even if the close damage had to be nerfed a bit to get it, pushing out the effective range quite a bit. In it's current evolution I can kill infantry in 1-2 rounds out to a respectable distance, and it shreds through a harasser pretty nicely, but the focus is pretty obviously on closer range engagements, and that's actually fine. I'll happily gun for anyone that uses one of these when it hits live. And just to point out, because NOBODY seems to be able to figure this out and keep bringing it up as a reason why the weapon isn't any good when commenting on it: THE MARAUDER AND PROTON II PPA CAN'T DAMAGE ARMOR NOW EITHER They're separating AI and AV weapons to actually make it a choice rather than just grabbing the thing that can do both. The focus of the ES AI secondary weapons is now entirely on infantry and the flash and harasser. Splash damage is currently bugged on the PTS. Definitely in the VR at least. It doesn't apply at all, so half the damage for the Marauder and Proton PPA II isn't being applied, even on direct hits.
The update for it that dropped last night is impressive, to say the least. The reduced spread and extra pellets COMPLETELY negates the dramatic damage falloff it now has, and is capable of kills out to 100m in the VR The only thing I'd like to see changed about it at this point is, because it functions basically as a PPA whose splash is pellet spread, is a PPA-sized mag and/or faster reload. I don't mind small mags/fast reload but small mags/slow reload is pretty killer. Also, maybe make the first rank of exmags less punishing? Maybe 50/500 like the HA's Ammo Belt.
Better, yes... Good enough.. not even close. Also, we does the ML version have 10 rounds by default and it's modified version is 8 by default?
Because games are balanced more on numbers. Somewhere in there, there's some math that justifies it on a theoretical base. But if you want a logical real life example to wrap your mind around, shotgun shells are bigger than rifle rounds. The C85's barrel is much larger than the straight Enforcer, so the shells are clearly bigger. It's basically a smaller scaled beehive round whereas the Enforcer is firing a single projectile, which appears to be a heavy armor piercing dart (Which are cased in a sabot as they're smaller than the barrels they're fired from). Less of the larger caliber Anti-Infantry rounds would fit in a magazine of the same size.
I have one last comment to SOE devs about the Enforcer Modified balance/revamp attempts thus far... "The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results." So, that begs the question..Have you guys seen your shrinks lately? Check your own change logs over the past year in regard to this weapon. You've already tried micro-tweaking this value or that (+ 1 pellet but minus 20 damage..blah..blah) and..El Surprise! It's still a steaming pile of camel poo! This weapon needs a fundamental change in design philosophy which may require some thinking outside the box. It's waaay more than a subtle tweak away from being viable.
The latest versionis alot better, that much is obvious. The problem is there is not really a reason to choose this over even a kobalt. The kobalt has a much longer sustained fire time, more sustained dps, and more reg dps passed 15m, AND The kobalt will still kill an enemy under a second within 15m. Essentially if you choose a C85 over a kobalt you get the ability to ohk within 15m while trading off: Range Sustained fire time/time until mag depletes. (this is really important because currently you have to be dead on target to make the c85 worth anything at all. a missed shot on this is a big deal compared to a kobalt missing a shot.) less dps on anything passed 15m accuracy passed 15m complete ineffectiveness passed 40m If you choose a c85 over a Fury you gain a OHK within 15m while trading off: Range indirect damage (what makes the current Anti Infanty-Harasser weapons so effective) less dps passed 15m complete ineffectiveness passed 40m combine that with a fast moving platform like a harasser and its easy to see all the weapons available a marauder will still easily surpass this kind of weapon in effectiveness in 99% of situations.
You could go so overboard with the buff hammer and still not make this weapon a match for the fury so I'm not sure why they are being so delicate with it. You could frankly take the one on live and extend the mag from 6 to 30 along with a velocity increase and it would still not be obvious whether it was good enough or not. I do want a shotgun btw (love shotguns NC forever!!), I don't even particularly mind if it is not that practical but seeing as how it can no longer hurt tanks I do expect it to be dicing infantry into festive ****ing confetti at close range if my aim is anywhere near them for 2+ shots (like the fury) with a reasonable chance of outright 1-shotting if aim is perfect (nothing wrong with 1-shotting, get over it and respawn). I would however like to point out that compared to a fury/ppa/marauder flak armour (and hopefully NW also) will presumably do nothing against a C85 mod, so that is something in it's favour.
Why can't we have 250 damage again like we used too?! We want the good stuff from the old version. We want a direct upgrade not a mixed change. What do you think of my idea of having wide spread with a smaller spread in the center? The center kills the target while the other hurt those around, to make up for the lack of splash.
