Are the red dot sights really this bad?

After reading somewhere in the vehicles fourms that all bullets in this game come directly out of the screen and that this caused problems for NC and TR sights I decided to try something out to see if this was true.

Basically I just placed a clear piece of tape in the center of the screen and put a single purple dot in the center with a marker before heading out for some off-hour screwing around.

Sure enough I randomly drop into a biolab fight and looked on in disbelief as I saw my 2X red dot bounce all over the place while my little purple mark stayed nice and center allowing me to score some great kills I normally wouldn't get basically doubling my normal kills per hour (well double my usual for biolab fights).

Is this a placebo affect and I was just having a great run or are these sights really just THAT bad?

The sights themselves arent bad, its mainly the first person animations that are throwing you off.

I... what? I have to test this.

Personally, I only use the 1x sight because the more zoom you have, the more your recoil is intensified. If you have constant strong recoil then your gun won't actually stay pointed at where you're firing, because every bullet throws your gun up. From your perspective you will be constantly aiming to the side/above your target and only actually aim at them the moment the bullet is fired.

Is that what you're talking about?

Its probably mostly placebo, depending on how much you shoot while strafing and ADS. When your character is strafing, the gun tilts, and the dot is textured to the gun, so with the gun's movement it moves off the center of the screen where it is going to shoot. I don't know why this wouldn't affect Vanu though.

I don't see why they don't just render the dot to the middle of the screen, and use something like glStencilMask to limit it to the glass portion of the red dot.

Its an outrageous system and how they let this stay for so long in an so called ''MLG'' game is beyond me(but then again MLG have games with aim assist i guess esport reputation is on decline). shots fired .

Just concept wise a sight should be there to improve your aim, not trick you.
Also its not intuitive for new player let alone old/pros.

Never really had a problem with the red-dots; they seem to work fine to me. As for the bouncing around bit... are you talking about the dot moving off-target due to the weapon's recoil? Because that does and should happen.

Yes its pretty bad. Wish they would fix it.

no, he's talking about your dood leaning / when you strafe right and \ when you strafe left. That means the dots of ADSed weapons leave the center of the screen behind and the center is where the bullets go. The only weapons not affected by this BS are the ones with overlay scopes, namely high zoom sniper rifles and IRNV.

Aha, so this is why the MCG is OP!

Huh. Never really noticed that phenomenon...

I guess the best thing to do would be to make the bullets go where the sight points and turn the overlay sights into normal sights. I think it'd be fine. I certainly don't think the sights moving off-center with player movement should be removed, though, as it makes sense that moving around would disrupt one's aim.

Eh, Kociboss beat me to it.

Problem here is the developers don't understand their poor logic for the design decision. The reason the red dot moves is to indicate to the player that their CoF has bloomed. This is a poor indicator, for the following;

1. When hip firing a shotgun your reticle(the circle) blooms outward, but stays centred on the screen. The CoF is larger but still weighted at the centre of the screen. This is correct.
2. Same as above for other weapons hip-fired. Despite a larger area of potential for your bullets the reticle stays centred because your shots are still more likely to come from the centre of the screen.
3. Bring in reflex sites, there is no bloom of the actual reticle so the CoF bloom is not relayed to the player in the normal easily identifiable way. The red dot then moves away from the centre of the screen to try and relay the information, except this is not where the bullets are weighted.

In the end you don't actually relay the change in CoF to the player in an easily identifiable way, create a poor shooting mechanic and push your player base into physical dots on the screen or overlays to correct the mechanic.

The best solution is to leave the dot centred and assume your players arent silly and realise if you strafe whilst ADSing you still suffer from CoF bloom.

It has one of the best crosshair. It even shows your current bullet spread circle. (I think one other ESG has one).

And also note how reflex sights work in real life:


Reflex sights are, contrary to what many FPS developers believe or would like you to believe, much more than a red dot painted on a piece of glass.

Fun infantry facts
1: bullets fired originate from the centre of the camera at all times this was done due to complaints about the prowlers offset turret.....<.<
2: Firstperson camera is set in your chest right beneath where the neck ends. This puts people that are on high places in a somewhat disadvantage towards the ones below. Also causes problems when you take cover behind low things.
3: thanks to latency it's smarter to go around a corner while shooting if you know someone is there instead of firing once you see him....

Someone pass this onto Higby. This mechanic would indicate CoF bloom as intended without creating the current issues players have.

And in any case the actual area the dot moves in is MUCH larger than the CoF change.. so the devs' explanation is not only stupid, but also Not Working as Stupidly Intended. It's working even stupider than that.

Test for fun:
1) move your mouse around in a large circle as fast as you can, while in hipfire mode and standing still, Take note of the CoF size (it doesn't change).
2) Mark center of screen somehow
3) move your mouse as in point 1, but while aiming down sights. Notice that the sights do not remain centered. The faster you wiggle your mouse around, the more off-center the aim goes. To maximise the effect, jump around a bit (also jump while hipfiring, to see the CoF change).. with a low vertical FOV, it's possible to get the sights completely off screen.
4) Attempt firing the gun until you manage to send bullets off-screen during jumping. (spoiler: you can't, even though jumps cause a huge CoF). Jumping causes 2 to 7 degrees of CoF, depending on weapon and whether you're ADSing or hipfiring. The maximum vertical FoV is 74 degrees.


Moderators: this issue has been brought up pretty constructively by many people, with undeniable proof in video form, so you'll have to excuse me for getting a bit annoyed.

Indeed, all other indications of CoF are the cross hairs growing larger, not moving from the centre of the screen.

Switch to reflex sights and the crosshair moves away from the centre of the screen, a completely different mechanic that is inaccurate in relaying inaccuracy.

I don't believe your recoil is actually affected by the amount of magnification in the optic youre using, it only appears to be worse as your'e zoomed in on your target. I actually prefer the 3.4 sight on my NS-11 over the 2x as I can better manage the recoil as I can more clearly see what it is doing.