I have seen various NC and TR complain about VS getting a 0.75x ADS movement speed multiplier on some of their LMGs (namely Orion and SVA-88). To this I have to say: it isn't as good as you think it is. Here's why: One of the core mechanics of the Heavy Assault is the overshield. The overshield happens to snare you, which counters most of the affects of the affects of the increased movement speed. If you have your overshield up it's still going to be easy for an opponent to hit you, even when using an Orion or SVA-88. This affect is, of course, less pronounced when using NMG or Adrenaline. NMG and Adrenaline by their very nature (being reactive shields) mean that they're going to be up for less time than Resist Shield. So yea, you are getting most of the benefit of 0.75x ADS movement speed multiplier with NMG or Adrenaline. However, by using NMG or Adrenaline you'll usually be increasing your overshield down-time (bar lucky kill streaks with Adrenaline). When these shields have been used they're usually gone for quite a while. If you're using Resist Shield you'll have your full effective health back in the time it takes for your standard shield (i.e. the normal shield bar that every class gets) to regenerate, assuming you have some method of healing. That's 10 seconds if you're not using Advanced Shield Capacitor and 6 seconds if you are. So, in conclusion, if you do get killed by someone due to them having a 0.75x ADS movement speed on their LMG (and that 0.75x ADS movement speed multiplier is actually effective), they've gimped themselves for subsequent fights for possibly up to 45 - 60 seconds. Yea, it sucks for you to be dead, but it's balanced by the fact the guy killing you is going to have a short lifespan as well. PS2 is a team game and not about 1v1. 1v1 balance is not relevant.
I agree with you to some extent, 0,75x on heavy is not that big of a deal for resist shield users, but plenty of HA do run NMG/Adrenaline. It's still a pretty welcome perc, HAs are not running their shields all the time, and they can choose wether to use it or not (sometimes, 0,75 strafing speed is more useful than shielding). It simply adds to these guns versatilty. Coupled with their high-rof, the orion and SVA are probably the best LMGs right now and the anchor really makes me sad sometimes.
The same question came up when someone posted about TR getting the only .75x carbines. And my response is the same here so i'm just gonna cut-n-paste... Asymmetrical balance. Each empire has one weapon type where they get an ADS advantage over the others. TR have the advantage w/ carbines. VS have LMGs. and NC have ARs (well, one more AR than the TR/VS anyway). And those weapons that do get the faster ADS movement have weaker stats in other areas to balance out the movement advantage. The TR's Lynx and Jag take a hit to their RoF to balance out their fast ADS movement (otherwise they'd probably be 845 and 800 RPM respectively). Likewise, the Orion is missing the soft ammo and Adv laser that the MSW-R and Anchor get in order to balance its ADS movement. The SVA-88 gets a smaller mag/ammo pool (75/225) compared to the EM6 and CARV-S (the closest NC and TR couterparts, both of which get 100/300). Plus as the OP mentioned, the movement advanatge for LMGs mostly goes away once you activate your Overshield. For ARs, each empire gets one: GR-22 (NC), TAR (TR), HV-45 (VS), So that part is balanced. Then the NC get a second one (Carnage BR) that looks like it took a ROF hit as well to compensate. It looks fine to me. Trying to give all three factions the same number of .75x ADS weapons in any category not only waters down each empire's unique feel and playstyle, but it would require nerfs in other areas to those weapons that have .75x added to them to keep them balanced. If anything the TR and VS should probably lose the fast movement on their ARs.
50% more movement speed while ADS is certainly significant. You're correct in that having the shield active reduces the impact of this, but that fact alone doesn't negate how much of a difference it makes overall. Heavy Assaults don't always have their shield active for two simple reasons. First, it could be used up. Second, because being snared could leave them at a significant disadvantage. Unless you can actually reason that Heavy Assaults rarely ever engage targets without their shield, then your argument doesn't negate what many of us agree on: that .75x movement speed is a significant boon to the Orion and SVA-88 -------------- I do have to call you out on this though. This is a complete fallacy. 1.) A "Team Game" can be focused on 1v1 engagements and still require teamwork. Basketball and Football are obviously team games, but involve single player match-ups most of the time. In an FPS game I can cover this doorway to the objective and shoot the guy who tries to enter while you take the other hallway and flank some other guy. We're working together, but we can also have to fight other players individually. 2.) "1v1" balance is relevant. Why? Because the factors involved in 1v1 doesn't magically disappear just because another person arrives. There are more factors, and some factors lose significance, but they don't disappear. If our Engineer only has a pistol and yours has a shotgun, those advantages and disadvantages don't suddenly disappear when our Heavy Assaults arrive. Every factor determines the outcome of the battle, not just tactics and strategy. 3.) 1v1 fights happen often and very easily influence the battle. My medic is running between rooms and runs in to your medic. Whoever wins gets to heal their team, while the other respawns and has to run back. I'm an infiltrator with an SMG around your Sunderer. I'll just keep trying to pull you guys off into 1v1s and take care of you. Our MAX turns the corner and runs into your MAX. Each has an Engineer. It's basically a 1v1 still, and so MAX vs MAX (1v1) balance becomes important. I can't honestly believe that you don't see a huge number of 1v1 engagements all the time.
There are two different styles of shield and you have to understand the differences to understand my argument. Resist Shield provides 45% mitigation of (most) damage while it's up. Because it mitigates rather than absorbs damage it has to be up all the time while you're taking damage otherwise you won't get full effective health. Hence, you're going to be slowed almost all the time (in combat) while using this shield. NMG and Adrenaline absorb a fixed amount of damage, hence, they can be used whenever you like (and are the best shields for 0.75x ADS weapons). These are the shields you are talking about, it seems. The real downer with these is they don't regenerate anywhere near as fast practically speaking (especially NMG) and when they are up provide a lot less effective health if you're using NW4/NW5. As an example, lets say you get in one fight after another, each fight taking you down to 1 HP. If you're using NMG 5 then after the first fight, it will take you 45 seconds to get back up to full effective health. If you're using Resist Shield, even without Advanced Shield Capacitor, you could have gone down to 1 health and come back up to full effective health 4 additional times between the first fight and when an NMG 5 HA is full effective health again. Adrenaline Shield is more tricky because the recharge time is fixed. Lets put it this way: in order for Adrenaline Shield to exceed the up-time of Resist Shield (in this scenario), you must kill 4 - 5 people in a ten second period.That's just not realistic. My argument in two sentences: If you're using Resist Shield you're gaining little/no benefit from a 0.75x ADS movement speed multiplier because Resist Shield, and hence the snare, has to be up all the time for you to get full benefit from the shield. If you're using NMG/Adrenaline you might be benefiting more from the 0.75x ADS movement speed multiplier, however, you've gimped the up-time of your shield by using an overshield other than Resist.
The 0,75 speed multiplier is not "significant", its a very minor buff. It might sounds great on paper, but in actually combat its gives a very very minor advantage. I play both TR and Vanu, particular LA and HA, and i dont see the difference. If you want to talk real in-game advantage, talk about the 100 mag 750 RoF lmg of the TR or the 40 mag of carbines. And yes no LMG beats an Orion in a 1vs1, but PS2 isnt about 1vs1, its about 1vsX, where you need to mow down multiple enemies.
Right now Im doing Auraxium with the Pulsar LSW (SVA-88 without the 0.75x) and I am barely noticing a difference to the Orion, SVA-88 and NS-15M (got Auraxium on all of them). The client side hit detection might favor it when peaking around corners, but thats about it.
This thread reads like the % camo coverage difference ones; a lot of people excusing away the difference and pretending there is none. But then suggest removing the % camo advantage (or .75 ADS advantage in this case) and the tune would soon change. Because, of course, the .75 ADS is a significant advantage....... it doesn't turn you into a God amongst men, but it does give you a nice advantage when ADSing against most everyone else.
I could care less if you gave every single LMG a 0.75 ADS. Again the difference between 0.50 and 0.75 is a very minor advantage, way less then 10 extra bullets in the carbine or +50 more rounds at the same RoF. Complaining about a redundant 0.25 speed, while ignoring the mag size elephant in the room
I have always felt this ever since I was experienced enough to know what the deal was with different factions and the 0.75 ADS modifier. TR has 2 carbines with 0.75 ADS speed, no-one else has any. VS has 2 LMGs with it, no-one else has any. NC gets 2 ARs with it but each empire has at least one, NC gets shafted a little in comparison (but still has the best ARs, don't get me wrong and also I am not counting NS weapons because everyone can use them). +1 for mentioning that. The TAR already has 10 extra rounds on the GR-22, give the H-V45 45 RPM more to compensate for losing the ADS speed bonus.
Mobility is underrated. Why TR uses more TAR instead of TRV and they buy Jaguar instead using Trac-5? Why VS uses more SVA instead Pulsar LSW? Why NC uses BR carnage instead of gauss rifle? hip firing accuracy, of course, but the 0.75 ADSm.m. is a strong argument in CQC. SMGs, Shotguns and pistols (wich are close range weapons) also have this caracteristics (even if it's more hip firing gun). Ads move mult> 50RPM higher ROF.
and its even better to have a dead enemy AND enough rounds to kill 3 more. And that has very little relevance to 0.75 VS 0.50 movement speed multiplier. a) PS2 is NOT about 1vs1, its always about 1vsX. You will very rarely be in a situaiton where you only need to kill one enemy and thats it. If you constantly find yourself in 1vs1 situations then you spend too much time on Amerish. b) Even in 1vs1 a 0.75 movement speed multiplier vs 0.50 with the same gun stats(except the movement speed multiplier) is still not a significant advantage. Its a very slight advantage. 2 total equal skilled players, yes then guy with 0.75 will win. If the 0.50 guy is slighly better then the 0.75 guy, the 0.50 guy will win.
All these walls of text are irrelevant. SVA-88, Orion, Jaguar, Lynx, HV-45, TAR, CarnageBR are all considered best of the category by a vast majority of players both by testimony on these forums and statistically (and having used most weapons in the game i agree). And there's only one thing they all have in common - .75x. HA is by far the most played infantry class (vehicle driving engs excluded). Carbines are are usable by 2 classes. AR's are usable by a class who's primary role isn't shooting someone in the face. Not to mention everyone gets one .75x AR with TAR being widely considered the best. So no, .75x weapons are not fairly divided amongst factions, at all.
But you don't get that through more damage per mag, only through more DPS or more damage on target (or more damage avoided). So on balance .75 ADS will always be better than a few more rounds in the mag.
This is probably one of the worst heavy posts ive seen in awhile. FIRST OF ALL Good heavies NEVER shield when they can Dodge first. This means that .75 is VERY good. If you are baddie and shield whenever you engage the enemy you deserve to die. The Orion and SV -88 are hands down the best LMGs in the game not just because of their .75 ads. They have fast reload, easy recoil, fast rof, great hipfire, no bullet drop, great x2 sights that actually line up on the screen. I have played extensively, getting auraxiums with all top tier LMGs the carv, sv 88, orion, saw, em6 etc. and the VS LMGs are superior in every way. This game is not about 1 v 1? So the orion and the SVA -88 get to win in 1 v1 and 1v 39487458975839457 too?
