My apologies I seem to have misremembered the patch notes, I recalled something about an 'anti-slop' adjustment that meant you had to aim better. it seems (to me)pretty much the same sub 8m (still an instant kill), a slight buff in the 10-15 (probably only noticeable verse maxes) and a nerf in the 15+. Seems kinda lame, they should have decreased cof with those changes. I'd assume since it kills maxes faster than any other infantry weapon, that they had the idea that it should be good at that. Of course when you give one empire the ultimate suppression tool and the other the ultimate cover ability something squirrely is always going to happen. Effectively they negate each other, sure the lasher damages the max and his engie but now the lasher is only going for two people rather than the whole squad.
That was a bit of politician speak just so people didn't start an uproar, it was all sleight of hand. There was no "bonus" for being accurate, they simply nerfed shotguns such that you need to be 100% accurate to get kills by dropping the individual pellet damage. This is a direct nerf in damage output vs. enemy MAXes who have things like Comets and Fractures. The CoF on NC Maxes is horrible. I find myself tapping my Hacksaws and letting the CoF reset just for more accurate shots and at that point what's the point in having shotguns? I mean check my killlboard for a recent streak, I know how good an NC MAX can be, but the balance is most definitely shifted away from him currently. https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428010618038742225/killboard A large buff is not needed, but the accuracy shouldn't be quite as bad, nor the range. Pellets are basically non-functional at this stage of the game, more or less a deathtrap for the user. I use slugs just because it increases my versatility at the cost of having lower DPS than my enemy MAXes, and I just play smart from there.
I have a 2 Year old that likes to press the Shift Key a lot..... You should see some of my business e-mails..... Case and Point is this guy... He had easily a 20 kill streak with his hacksaws... That needs buffed?
What's more surprising than his kill streak is that opponents kept running through that door way instead of tossing a few C4 in it
That explains it. [/quote] No one is saying the NC AI MAX can't kill people, as mentioned in 0-5m it is utterly deadly vs infantry. The problem is that the TR and VS MAXs are exactly 0.3 seconds less deadly (which when it comes to human reaction time and client-side hit detection makes it functionally the same) and from 8m onwards seriously out strip the NC AI MAX, which with the best will in the world isn't a huge (or even AN) advantage when you consider the lack of range. The other issue is that only dual Grinders can beat a TR/VS AI MAX if both are standard, or if both have KA5, with the other 3 NC AI weapons the NC MAX always loses.
That was the last set of blanket nerfs. What they said was they intended to make shotguns more skillful to use (which a lot of people thought might mean CoF). However all the did was increase damage carry a tiny bit (at ranges where frankly it doesn't matter) and nerf the damage drop off and total damage past that. Although in the case of the Mattock just a pure nerf. Here's what they did graphically: http://imgur.com/a/RwbM2/noscript As you can see it was just a nerf, plain and simple.
NC MAX can be powerful, but it's not up to the level of the TR or VS MAX. They are both way more easy to use and do well with. Put it this way, as well as I did on that run, it would have been over far quicker if I hadn't run into cover every time I saw a ZOE MAX. FracMAXes have the same effect at making me seek cover because I know I can't compete in a straight up damage trade.
That's one of the things no one seems to recognise with the Fracture MAXs, they are utterly brilliant at supressive fire, they keep peoples heads down (or rather hidden behind wall) better than anything but vehicles (which can't access a lot of places) which allows the TR free reign to advance much of the time.
Yeah the Pheonix works quite well for that, but only really against infantry is it better in the open (compared to Striker/Lancer or general Lock-ons or dumbfires), and it's rare that people really go World War One-style in an infantry charge.
To everybody who points at "That guy who killed stuff" as an excuse to not buff the NC max, let me just say something: Took me a while to grind up and cert out my MAX on my NC main. Dual scats, flak 4 for the C4, Aegis 3, extended mags and slugs. I can go into a bio lab fight and hold my own soloing. Until I meet a max. Then, it's iffy either way. Might work, might not. If I get lucky, yea. If he can aim to hit my feet or something, he'll probably win. But, I can slaughter infantry for a good ~20m or so after a few thousand certs of investment. It's a very strategic playing style though, as you have to know where your enemy is at all times as every shot has to count. See a guy, crouch, don't move, shoot. Works well for the NC max. Then I can go over to my very basic maxes on TR and VS, and not even have to cert into armor, abilities, or the second AI weapon to be effective in the same way. That's the issue with NC maxes at the moment. Highest skill ceiling, as it's the most limited in all areas. Yes, we have a fast TTK. It's physically impossible to react to .3 seconds, however, which can be shared by the TR and VS. NC have some of the worst damage over time, as another individual stated. It's not even worth trying to go into a building with multiple people. You'll get shot through your aegis as you reload after killing two of your enemies. Or, you'll get C4'd as the slug rounds you put in to compensate for your lack of range fail to kill a light assault in three shots. All we're really asking as NC is that our max gets some kind of buff so we can be more effective in our own ranges. My thought is we could have two different things to help balance. Reduce acc by 10%. Increase CoF by 10%. Increase reload speed 30% Give NC maxes 24 rounds a magazine stock, 36 for extended magazines. DPS is still comparable to other maxes. We're still restricted to range. We have the option of extended fire. Second thought, increase damage by 30% and fire rate by 30% while reducing acc by 15% and slug cof by 20%. We waste ammo faster. We do more damage a shot. Shots are less accurate. We become the legitimate CQC powerhouse then, while any max who is able to fight us in his own effective range will have an easy fight. Whether it's a TR max that will simply charge away from a charging NC max, or a ZOE'd VS max backing away from us, we'll still be at a physical disadvantage at average combat ranges. We're still limited by a small magazine, but we're able to squeeze more than two kills out of it, as compared to the almost 7-8 able to be dropped by a good TR/VS. Idk. Makes sense to me.
If you give the NC max a long range option, some concession should be made for the VS/TR maxes. However if SOE releases a NS shotgun and an NS gatling gun for the max like some people suggest, you will have to deal with the possibility of a VS maxes with dual shotguns. Take this situation: A NC max is running dual NS gatling guns, happy for the change in play style available for his favorite class. Suddenly a VS max appears, moving quickly with the violet hue of an active zealot overdrive glowing brightly on it's alien form. The NC max fires back, some of his shots miss as the the Zealot max quickly closes the distance until...Bam! Bam! Bam! The NC max falls to the floor defeated as his opponent zips away for other prey.
No one is saying the NC AI MAX can't kill people, as mentioned in 0-5m it is utterly deadly vs infantry. The problem is that the TR and VS MAXs are exactly 0.3 seconds less deadly (which when it comes to human reaction time and client-side hit detection makes it functionally the same) and from 8m onwards seriously out strip the NC AI MAX, which with the best will in the world isn't a huge (or even AN) advantage when you consider the lack of range. The other issue is that only dual Grinders can beat a TR/VS AI MAX if both are standard, or if both have KA5, with the other 3 NC AI weapons the NC MAX always loses.[/quote] I understand all that.... But my point is that you CHOSE to use a Triple Shotgun... You're going to be restricted in range a little to make up for the extreme mess that it deals up close. Scatmaxes rip up practically anything they stand up against. I haven't seen an NC max be anything BUT a Scat anymore. With the exception of when they pull some bursters. If everyone wants to be a scatmax, it's likely because they're BEAST. And you guys are talking about buffing that? I'd shoot my pinky toe off if the TR or VS could get a shotgun for our max, let alone 3 on each arm!
Gives TR/VS scattercannons bullet/laser equivalents + gives NC heavy cyler/Quasar gauss equivalent = problem solved.
The 3 barrels are only for looks sadly. If it was a triple shotgun then each barrel would fire 2 pellets and with this spread that is smooth bore musket bad. 2 pellets in a single barrel would be like twin slugs or close to that. In PS1 it was still a single barrel shotgun, but had 3 barrels it could swap between with only one in use at any time. Each barrel had a choke to make one high ROF high spread, Med ROF Med spread, and low ROF and low spread. Either way I agree on giving all MAXes a HMG and shotgun. Likely NS versions to make thing easier to balance with just 2 weapons instead of 3. But like others have said, there is the fact of ZOE to deal with. Think of a VS MAX running shotguns and instead of just taking hits in a reload like NC MAXes have to he pops ZOE to run or just keeps it on to very possibly insta kill other MAXes at greater ranges NC MAXes could even back at launch. Also VS MAXes have some damned soft footsteps and can camp a door a little better with the dark skin and slimmer body.
I understand all that.... But my point is that you CHOSE to use a Triple Shotgun... You're going to be restricted in range a little to make up for the extreme mess that it deals up close. Scatmaxes rip up practically anything they stand up against. I haven't seen an NC max be anything BUT a Scat anymore. With the exception of when they pull some bursters. If everyone wants to be a scatmax, it's likely because they're BEAST. And you guys are talking about buffing that? I'd shoot my pinky toe off if the TR or VS could get a shotgun for our max, let alone 3 on each arm![/quote] Let's review the options for the NC MAX. Bursters: okayish AI choice but every faction can use them. Falcon: LOL. Raven: only option for longer range fights. Shotguns: one shotguns infantry that are close. Now do you see why people are using shotguns? The other choices suck in comparison, but that doesn't mean MAX shotguns are any good compared to other faction MAX weapons.
Er... I didn't. SOE did. Personally I'd have gone with PS1 AI MAX balance where the NC AI MAX had 3 choked modes (with slower RoF and tigher spread) as that WORKED. Furthermore the NC AI MAX has been blanket nerfed TWICE now since the game went Live, it is shadow of it's former self at 0-8m (it was always fairly pants past 8m). Er.... no they don't. 3 out of the 4 NC AI weapons ALWAYS LOSE to any TR or VS AI weapon in Standard MAX vs Standard MAX or KA5 MAX vs KA5 MAX. Only dual Grinder (pellet) MAXs can win........ and, of course, Grinder (pellet) MAXs have terrible range. Against Infantry the 0-5m TTK is funtionally the same, but the NC TTK is much worse from 5m+. You know I think you should play them. The reason you "only" see ScatMAX (mostly likely dual Mattock (slug) MAXs in fact) is largely because the NC AI MAX are terrible at AI. Unlike the TR and VS there is NO NC AV MAX that you would bring to an AI situation, the Falcon is just poor (at AV and AI) and whilst the Raven is decent at mid range AV it is NOT a good AV weapon at all, compared to the incredible performance of the Fracture. So yes you're right NC AV MAXs aren't in a great place either now comparatively. AA MAX wise the NC are (again) at the bottom of the tree with their special being rubbish for AA as it doesn't boost offence (unlike ZOE or Lockdown) and it doesn't help much against AOE (ZOE at least allows you to dodge).
I'm playing all 3 type of maxes and NC max is simply outperformed by the other 2 for about 6 months. Since this has been the case for this long, I declare that it's intentional. And that's fine with me! Just make the NC one cost less resources - or have the other 2 cost more - and let's have the C4 cost for NC reduced by 25% to offset the max weaknesses. After all.. NC has the most outdated industrial lifters repurposed, while the other 2 are technically superior and NC is all about industry, so C4 should be super cheap for them Or we could simply have the ammo reserves the TR and VS maybe halved, so no more commando jobs for them and as we know any of the balance issues have lesser effect in squad/ platoon level combat.
I think that vehicule/MAX ressource price for each empire should follow the market rule : the more demand there is, the more the price goes up relative to other empire. We will see less TR and VS MAX, less mosquitoes, less vulcan/marauder harasser, etc... And about "there is only scatmax" : AI weapons are shotguns, what can we do against infantry besides using scatmax ? And NC AV weapons kind of suck against infantry (only raven can do something, and only on idle target...)
