Now... The point of this thread is to ask just why do I see a number of players who feel that the sniper rifle needs to be an one shot kill? Is it the points for the kill people are missing? Or does it have to do with the K/D stat??? I play infiltrator primarily. And I see this pop up every now and then. But I don't see a thread to discuss it in the community lately (though I might have missed). Mostly I see "why doesn't my rifle one shot?" or "I hate nanoweave!" I like to mix up close range and long range combat. Me, I like to work at the edge of render distance when I can. Knowing that even with the beefiest rifle, it'll take some work to down certain enemies. Personally I don't mind having to tag someone twice. Can't wait for the pull bolt. If he earned enough certs and feels he needs to beef up his health to stand a chance, I say let him. I've been in the situation where you find a nice nest and start trying to pick off infantry. Only to be met with that familiar sound of someone taking a round to the head, and surviving. Then losing LoS as whatever nanoweave baddie cowers in fear. Only to hit someone else and have the same thing happen. I actually have a video of me pinging a cloud of enemies in the head who have nanoweave wrapped tightly around their skulls. Again for me, that isn't a problem. I got enough of them with the second round. Though I will admit it was slightly frustrating to have a few dive out of sight. That, and that I was sort of counting up how many points I could have had if the first surprise round went through. I know it isn't easy to got a head shot at ranged. I'd love to be able to flank a squad of enemies and mow them all down from a distance with single rounds. I just don't buy it that the infiltrator is useless or doesn't contribute to the battle if he can't kill off everything he goes against in the distance. I'm still one to wants to met in the middle and figure out way to give points to players who maybe don't get the kill, but strike helmets from long range all day. There are so many ways to earn points with the other classes for denting huge vehicles, why not infiltrator IF its not just about the kills. I mean you get a few points for hitting almost any thing bigger then a toaster with a lock on rocket. Why not a few nuggets for something that is a heck of a lot harder and takes practice/right conditions?
The possibility didn't occur to you that it's not about any sort of arbitrary score, but instead the tactical ramifications of your target dying when you shoot him in the head rather than running off, alive and alert?
The way you worded this is as if the only benefit to killing a player is that you get a kill on your stats. I'm not going to speak for anyone else, but sniping is absolutely about the kills for me - not about farming kills or trying to make a number go up, but trying to make the enemy players who matter go down and remove them from the fight, no matter how temporarily. To me, these are the problems with Nanoweave as far as sniping is concerned: - It provides no indication of its presence. We can't choose to avoid targets using Nanoweave because we can't know whether they are or not. - It gives our enemies a chance to react, which bolt-action sniper rifles simply were not designed to deal with. - It is objectively the most useful suit slot to equip in general. Only players who expect to perform specialized roles have any real reason to equip something else, like medics with the ASC. Denying us experience is not a consideration here. Reward structures represent such a low priority compared to actual game balance that I'm not sure why you even think this is a reasonable compromise. To answer your initial question, yes. It is all about the kills, because that's what weapons are for. You might be okay with using an under-performing weapon, but its ability to accumulate score isn't going to matter to those of us who want it to be an effective tool.
The nanoweave change unintentionally made the entire bolt action line of rifles obsolete. Or if it was intentional, it was a cover up nerf of the bolt action rifle. A HUGE nerf. Lets face it, nothing is more frustrating then hitting a moving target in the head at 300+ meters only to hear "clunk" with a 1000 CERT rifle. Or hell to hear the "clunk" below 50 meters with a 1000 CERT rifle. The risk/reward argument doesnt hold any weight. What risk/reward does a ESF have when he kills an infiltrator by using scout radar against an enemy with zero defense against him? The cloak is also louder than a jet engine. If they want to nerf headshot ability, which has already been established...then in my opinion they should take away scope sway. The sway is so exaggerated it looks like the character has parkinsons. I think that would be a fair tradeoff. The class is completely nerfed, I could write paragraphs about it. But For some reason the class is filled with sadists that wont stand up for their class, but instead embrace all the nerfs as a "challenge", while everyone else passes them by in usefulness.
A bunch of bad players who can't get over the fact their one trick pony "tactic" has an easy counter. Rather than do what intelligent person would, which is to swap over tactics that are more suitable for the situation they stubbornly hold onto their persecution complex. That's what it all comes down to. This might rock your world, but sniping doesn't require any massive degree of skill. I realised this when I unlocked the RAMS 50 on a whim and instantly got to grips with it, racking up the kills with ease. Do you want to know what I did when I hit someone with Nanoweave? Simple, I moved onto the next target. I would say that only a quarter (at the very most) of the enemies I sniped had it at such a level as to save them. The point of sniping was that I was so far off that it would take them a long time to find me even if they knew what direction I was shooting from. Even the tiniest amount of awareness on my part meant I was hardly ever in harms way. Heck, even they did come after me I could just re-position or retreat before they arrived. I think it's a valid thing to do, but it's beyond belief that so many people here can act like they're expert infiltrators because they had the ability to line up crosshairs. Yeah, you and every other player in the game. There's a time and place to bring out the sniper rifle, and reason I get plenty of satisfaction when I snipe is because I wait for those times. I think the mark of a wise infiltrator is not in how many kills they get, but in being able to identify that moment.
Well, now that you've got your little rant out of the way, Shuuda, would you care to address any of the problems I just outlined?
Speaking as someone on the wrong side of the sniper rifles, I'd say getting a head shot is imperative for most Infiltrators. I often find myself getting sniped but I rarely die from the shots. When the first shot hits me, I can clearly see my health drop and conclude from the bullet that it was a sniper (and I can usually deduct from which angle the shot came unless I'm dead in the open). My immediate reaction is to take cover and heal up (or maze my way back to a medic/resupply terminal if I'm not on my medic).
Dr. nailed it for my point of view regarding OHK's. The entire goal of a sniper is to drop the ones that matter, in real life they're a force multiplier, but this isn't real life. Anyways, a skilled sniper will focus on priority targets, like medics, or engineers. Other classes rely on these classes in order to maintain the front lines, and remain in fighting shape. So a good sniper will drop these classes first and remove the supports from under the main infrastructure, which will hopefully collapse after their supporting beams are down. Thus allowing our allies to seize the advantage, furthermore we try to prevent other snipers from doing the same thing to do us as well. However, with nanoweave they just heal up and go right back to work. Medics begin doing their little dance as they revive fallen allies, and thus undoing my work. Then they dispatch a few guys, and if I'm not gone...I will be. A sniper has one job it's not about the exp, or my KDR (as much as my perfectionist side hates me for saying that). It's about the priority targets I headshot getting put down when I lodge a bullet in their brain.
LOL WUT Something tells me that you shoot noobs who stand still like idiots. Your TOP5 weapons, 2nd place - lolpods. Tell us more about skill bro. Try to repeat: I'm average player so this would be easy for u i guess.
Moin At this point the most intelligent thing you can do is switch to another class. It sounds to me that you snipe only from time to time for the fun of it, and that's fine. Since I believe that NW vs BASR is broken as hell I do the same. It's not efficient at the moment and most of the time you're a burden for your team. That's the way it is but that's not the way it should be imho. And honestly, you play down the skill it takes to kill a good player. Sure, everybody can kill those BR 1-15 noobs, most of them don't even have NW. But 10 kills against those players don't count for anything if you can't kill that veteran medic who's rezzing them. The very least that has to be done is increasing the mindamage range for BASR. Grüße, regards, the Toast
Its not about how easy or how hard it is to snipe, its about balance. Bolt action snipers are balanced around the fact that they have Ohk potential. Everything about them is subpar except for velocity and headshot damage. To be able to counter this so easily with a passive cert is in no way balanced. You don't want to get sniped? Pop smoke, move around, use cover, watch for tracers, etc. These are the things players should be taking advantage of when being sniped is a problem. A passive cert that is extremely useful for other things that is able to counter a weapon so completely is bad design. Its like adding a passive ability to dog fighting air frame on esfs that cancel all lock ons outside of 50 meters. No one cares about how hard it is to snipe, and no one but you is bragging about how good they are. We care about the balance of a weapon type that we enjoy using being rendered useless because of nanoweave.
Hey guys, thanks for the replies! Basically I want this all laid out on the table. So they can't say we didn't know x,y,z... Above are opinions of actually players. I can see it from both sides. Though I'm still planted in the middle on the issue of OHK.
Firstly, how clever of you a to try and smear someone because they used to fly a bit. I guess that's the sort of thing you have to resort when your arguement is so pitiful. Secondly, nice shot, but what I am suppose to tell from a single clip exactly? Would putting up a clip of me knifing a BR 100 once prove that I'm sort of CQC master or something? Nay. But yeah (to play your little game), when I snipe I can get shots like that every so often.
Used to fly a bit = Second best weapon is rocket pods? Also, if you're so awesome, give us a video of you hitting an impossible shot.
Just curious as to how many snipers use nanoweave? Bit hypocritical if you do to then rage about others using it.
Loving this. You guys dig up dirt like policitians. Yes, I got the auraxium medal months ago with rocket pod (hardly proud of it to be honest) and since then I've hardly flown for combat purposes. But I think it provides a good example. I used to fly a bit, and then I got less effective with it. Instead of crying on some forum about those lock-ons and burster maxes (I quit pre-nerf) I just when did something else and didn't look back. Nowadays I use the ESF for the ejection seat more than anything else, so I found a nice new place for something old. While I know what I'm about to say will be subjected to mockery and you people will no doubt use it to invalidate anything I say from now on, I'm not going to bother. I'm not going to go out of my doing something I don't care for just to prove something to some guys on the internet. It's not like if I posted a video of me doing the exact same kind of shot Granderil did a hundred times over would instantly covert anyone. You know what, yeah, you're all better snipers than me, I won't deny that and I was never trying to suggest otherwise. I'm sure Granderil could get more of those shots than I could. If you think the point I was trying to make was that I'm an awesome player or that I'm the best sniper here then you clearly got the wrong end of the stick. Good day.
Just to get you right, you unlocked your RAMS 50, killed 67 enemies (your stats say so) and after that you tell everyone that their arguments are invalid because of your huge experience? You must be trolling o.0 Even if I would agree with you with "There's a time and place to bring out the sniper rifle", I would still think that the bolt rifle play style should be worth more than probably 30 minutes within a "Played Time" of 26 days...
On Nanoweave: If players want to cert Nanoweave they should ideally be doing this for CQC advantages increasing their survivability by a small degree. Not certing for the purpose of defeating a BASR. In most cases they don't even need it for this, but use it because its good all around. From a sniping perspective bases have been getting better design, more cover is available, and the majority of lower skilled snipers (including myself) can be easily countered by simply moving around a little bit. There is no reason that a single suit slot should completely render an entire class of weapons inherently less useful. If Sony decides this is how they want to roll in future... I would GLADLY take some [Anti-pellet armor] so it takes at least two hits with a shotgun to kill me at their optimal ranges. Then it would be more fair. To be clear I am not crying just trying illustrate how drastically nanoweave armour affects the BASR class of weapons. On Attitude: The FNO response shed light on Sony's stance towards 1 hit kills. I don't expect anything will change in that regard. Sony is preparing PS2 for a newbie friendly fast paced console environment. To be honest I think snipers were not on their minds we will probably see little tweaks as the game gets refined. Planetside 2 community itself is also not outwardly friendly towards players who identify themselves as snipers which doesn't help the situation either. Heck look at some of the base designs. The sad reality is we have to pay for any tweaks that WILL eventually happen. Time is money, so I expect to see new Sniper Rifles come out to increase the area where you can 1 hit kill. I also would anticipate new types of ammo coming out where you can do something similar. Sony will figure out a way to make snipers have to invest some more certs into being able to take down Nanoweave players so the community at large can crack out their calculators and be all like - Oh the little infiltrator paid 1000 certs for his weapon ,and then like another 300 for his scope and special ammo to kill you, so its totally more fair since he spent more certs then you did, then he also managed to shoot you in the head too. On "Solutions" I wager its only a matter of time. It can't stay like this forever. I think as long as they prevent massive numbers of lower rank snipers from setting up shop and landing scores of 1 hit kill headshots on emmo players problem solved. We have to be honest about this. Previously you could roll a brand new, battle rank #1 NC, take their default rifle, and with a little bit of skill, and no cert investment start getting 1 hit kill headshots. I would know this because I enjoyed playing NC on an alt. IN MY OPINION : The sniper has earned his kills. Congrats to them for doing a good job and being a good sniper. However not all people are as calm. Some will get frustrated, and the slower ones, who we all love to farm since they never seem to learn to get their wiggle on, just get angrier and quit the game or cause a **** storm. Unfortunately we need to encourage these people to stay and keep playing for the good of the game. I guess what I am trying to say is... As long as Sony can limit the frequency of situations where bolt actions 1 hit kill on average things should work out okay. In a perfect planetside 2 realm of existance, the sniper who is truly dedicated, spends his certs, gets his gun of choice. Then also certs into special ammo. Kinda like how I use softpoint on my SMG and pick up other attachments. Maybe this allows them to extend their 1 hit kill range to something more reasonable. This way the certed sniper can get back to business and do what he is passionate about without breaking the game for others. (And by " breaking " I mean making people cry and leave) Despite my suggestion, I think its really important for people to keep voicing their distaste for how the BASR handles right now so it stays on Sonys to "Honey do list". I also hope Devs understand most of the players who do truly love sniping would gladly pay for a new gun, or cert into some new ammo on existing BASR to solve or mitigate the issue. If 300 certs (arbitrary number) is enough to sway public opinion. Do it and give players back their fun while protecting from swarms of 1 hit kills. They could also switch the NC starting gun >.> just saying that would help a little statistically. I am probably going to get flamed for suggesting this but hey. The Point of a Sniper In short they are there to support their allies. Cover fire during a push, as others have stated they also are great for taking out higher value targets like medics or engineers who are manning turrets. Kills are one way a sniper can help. Preventing terminals from being used by enemy forces is another. So is spotting. Sadly at present its really limited and that is unfortunate. Snipers defiantly need some at extra support tools or uses. Longer range especially.
