Disable XP When Shooting From Spawn

Faceplam indeed.



Completely different games and business models.

One is a FPS; in 10 years time they want you playing BF37 and CoD96.

The other is a MMOFPS; in 10 years time they still want you playing it.




A 3 faction MMOFPS is nothing like a FPS just like PS1 was nothing like HL. In a game like PS2 you have to support the underdogs otherwise you end up with Zerg side servers and very quickly dead servers and not long after that no servers.

SoE know this, because they aren't daft and they have experience.

As I've said repeatedly in this thread though; none of that really has anything at all to do with what base you're at, it's just as effective at the current base, the only factor is time and numbers (and organisation) not which base you're at.

Never mind experince from spawns somehow changing the above.

Indeed, this is the problem with PS2 spawns (not exp or whatever) they are simply very badly designed. (directly campable by vehicles and aircraft in many cases and not enough exits), as well as capture points and bases in general.

Improving the game will involve redesigning and making bases and spawns better, not punishing outnumbered factions further.

That is a fair solution.. I would like to see experience gained from kills gained from vehicles on infantry lowered to reflect the lesser effort and danger required but that is another topic

For the last time; if the attackers stay out of the line of fire from the spawn room there will be no"farm" and no EXP for the defenders in the spam room. Don't like players in the spam room getting kills while in there? Don't give them targets! Simple! The answer lies with the attackers not the defenders.

All of you complaining about defenders shooting out of the shield just seem to want easier captures; how about as soon as the caps are taken the spawns are disabled and the spawn room shields drop? There you go, about the simplest capture possible with a minimum of fighting; just what you all seem to want.

So your now suggesting that the losing faction not only surrenders the base if they're out numbered but should also surrender the whole continent to? Wow, what a strategy.

@ Patrician:

First you didn't realize that its not only the attackers who are complaining about the so called defenders, but the teammates of them! Read through the posts in this thread and you'll see that its even the majority of them. Second you think regrouping at a different base is a weak strategy? So what about yours? Staying safe in each spawn room and being pushed back from base to base? The difference between both is that with regrouping you at least try to play for you team.

@ Goretzu:

Please stop overusing the term underdog. You make yourself the underdog by fighting battles which can't be won. You said it yourself, how to fight the way of a spawn room which is being under siege by a majority of 5:1? There is no way to do from inside the spawn room so why do you stay there? You can't defend a base from inside the spawn room, plain and simple. There is no way to hold the base from inside the spawn room so what are you still doing there? Please try to explain and I try to understand. But don't use the argument you try to shoot them down one by one, because we are talking about a zerg with sundys and other spawn possibilities. There won't be less enemies by the few guys you kill from inside the spawn room. Defending the spawn room doesn't even mean a slower cap time for the enemy. So speaking of the team and the other players of your team, what exactly is your objective inside of a lost spawn room? What are you doing in there that helps your team?

Again if you don't support the underdog in a game like PS2 you end up with no game (or just 1 server). SOE knows this from PS1.

The idea of punishing the already punished underdog simply because someone who IS spawn camping doesn't like being killed is plain insane from a business point of view.




As you say as it stand if you are outnumbered currently in PS2 you may as well re-roll the Zerg side or just quit - what I don't understand is why you think making this WORSE will make anything "better"?

No, what you don't understand is that camping inside spawn room when the base is already lost is what's making it worse for the defender.

The problem was never about the attackers not wanting to get killed by the players camping inside the spawn room.

How does it make anything any "worse"? Please explain exactly how it does.




And again though what does anyone gain?


The defenders are just further punished for being outnumbered (not bad, not skilless, not rubbish - simply outnumbered).

And what changes if they redeploy to the next base? All they can do under this threads "logic" is then redeploy again as soon as the enemy rolls into the next base.


It fixes nothing, it does nothing but punish those already losing. Actually fixing issues might fix something, but this isn't fixing anything at all!

Not giving exp for an action is not a punishment. It is the default state.

Giving exp for an action is a reward. Rewards give incentive to do things.

Camping inside a spawn room accomplishes nothing. Giving an incentive to do so hurts the gameplay.

When pushed inside a spawnroom, the only sensible things to do gameplay-wise, are to push out of it to retake the base or to redeploy to another base where you can set up defenses or push to another base. If you're too out numbered to stop the enemy zerg, you'll at least be able to slow it down a little or cut them off by pushing around it (although the lattice system limits the possibility of 'offensive defending'.

Camping inside of spawn room only ties down manpower. There can be many spawn rooms at a time where a lot of defenders are tied down, not doing anything worth while for their team. This could amount to a quite a bit of manpower which could possibly make a difference elsewhere.

On top of that there are times when you, as a defender, would have a chance to push out of the spawn room and retake the base (when you are not massively out numbered), but instead the majority of defenders opt to stay inside the spawn room because they like to buff their KDR and gain some EXP from the safety of their spawn room.

-----

The last bit could be circumvented by the attackers. If they stay out of the enemy spawn room line of sight, the defenders get no EXP. But unfortunately the player base doesn't have that much brain power or unity to do stuff like that.

One could also argue, that by showing yourself and giving the defenders a kill or two is actually tactically a smart move. This way the defenders have more incentive to remain inside the spawn room and not push out. All it means is you'll just have to respawn to your sundie ~50m away, which takes around 5 seconds.

Anyways, it is a fact that pushing the defenders all the way to their spawn room is the most effective way for the attackers to secure a base capture and so they are not to be blamed for doing so.

tl;dr
Defenders camping inside a spawn room accomplish nothing. Players should not be rewarded for actions that accomplish nothing. Players are sheep who need to be guided to a certain path by placing rewards on that path and removing them from elsewhere.

No it is not, getting exp for kills is the default state.


Again how does it hurt gameplay? The only way you can get kills from behind a spawn shield is largely when you're BEING spawn camped - if you're not being spawn camped you can't get kills.

If you're being spawn camped you are almost certainly vastly outnumbered.

So again what does removing exp from spawn player achieve? (other than further punishing outnumbered players)

Nothing.








Conversely what does redeployed players achieve? Nothing if they are outnumbered, and doubly nothing if they follow this threads "logic" and redeploy to an uncontested base as soon as the enemy arrive.

You've got to improve your reading comprehension.

edit:
Or maybe I need to improve my english. Not my native language. It can be hard to understand where I'm going at times. =P

Then again, your "logic" makes no sense to me so I guess we are even. =D

Btw, you seem to think there is no space in between bases. Defending a base by spawning there once the attackers are already on top of it is a lousy tactic.

You haven't said what it achieves though, dispite being repeatedly asked.

You keep claiming it does something yet cannot say what other then vague claims that stand up to no scrutiny.


The reason for this, of course, is that redeploying does NOTHING unless something else changes, and if something changes then it can happen at the base you are at.

Conversely you can't provide an explanation as to what removing exp from kills made from the spawn would achieve, because it would achieve nothing (other than further punishing and demoralising those already outnumbered underdogs).






Redesigning spawns and bases could achieve something and would be constructive, simply removing experience from kills made within the spawn achieves nothing (other than punishing people the game is already punishing) and would be destructive.

It would discourage players from staying inside spawn rooms when the base is already lost.

I thought that much was obvious.

In PS1 where there were bridges and impassable rivers you had a decent chance to hold the enemy at a position between bases.

PS2 has very, very few areas like this.



Quite simply if you've just lost a base and are being spawn camped (and are therefore almost certainly seriously outnumbered), if nothing changes then you will lose the next base in the same way.

Charging out to meet a Zerg 1/2 way between two bases again DOES NOT favour the underdog, but again the Zerg.

You don't get magically more numbers by redeploying, you don't magically get more skilled players by redeploying, you don't magically anything be redeploying, you just get to redeploy.

Fair enough you can replenish your vehicles maybe at the right base, but if you couldn't hold the prior base with vehicles you won't hold this one either.





So again what does removing experience from the spawn achieve?

It reduces jealously of people daft enough to get themselves shot when spawn camping (people already ON the Zerg side).

And it does nothing but punish people already being punished by the game because they are outnumbered.

It's just going to annoy people and make them quit (or change to the Zerg side) as negative and the positive is basically nothing.

Indeed, but as that achieves nothing (other than punishing the already punished) why should SOE be daft enough do that?

As opposed to the current situation where the Zerged side gets thrown a bone and might get a couple of kills (which does nothing to the Zerg side, but might bouy up the underdog side from their usual gameplay experience of being remorselessly crushed by the Zerg).


It's just something with several negatives and no real positive.





Which is the problem; it is a plain bad idea.

Almost anything else they might do would be better:

- make spawns destroyable (better)
- make spawns non-campable by vehicles and aircraft (better)
- give spawns more exits (better)
- make the capture point completely reset if it is re-taken (better)
etc. etc.

Let's agree to disagree then.

You don't think the suggested change would accomplish any of the positive effects I have mentioned earlier.

I think it would and I don't think the backfiring you mentioned of "punishing the underdog" would be a big deal. If a player's gameplay consists of camping in a spawn room after another, I don't understand how they'd still be playing.

At least we agree on one thing: Better base/spawn design/system is needed. =P

No. The default rule is kills give XP. If you remove XP for certain kills, you are making an exception to the rule.

That you don't understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I personally don't understand how one can listen to and enjoy Justin Bieber but it's a fact that many actually do.

You don't enjoy camping in a spawn room ? But nobody forces you to do that. Just let those who enjoy it, do it.

But the spawn campers are not coordinated! 99% of times they are solos. They don't communicate one with another. How can you expect them to redeploy and mount a counter attack together ???

Absolutely.

But I simply cannot see how removing experience from spawns does that (removing exp from an area 100m around spawns might well help in some respect, albiet it probably not with player retention - but that's never going to happen either).

It is simply a stick to beat the already beaten with (and SOE have said they don't want sticks in the game only carrots).

This is honestly the dumbest thing I've heard in this topic. 100m is a huge distance around spawns and would encompass most towers. 10m maybe 100m lol no.