Removing the reverse manoeuver is like taking the Ski out of Tribes...

The official SOE ESF training video that you can access right from the game launcher shows you how to do the Reverse Maneuver, so the basics are readily accessible to anyone who bothers to RTFM...



That said, as an inexperienced dogfighter I think they are taking the exact opposite approach that they need to with this change. Instead of nerfing the maneuver itself, they should make new players more aware that the basic maneuver is possible, and then make it easier for them to perform it. At minimum there should be:

• A toggle switch added that you can map to lock your engines into the down (reverse) position regardless of your current flight vector to act as training wheels for new pilots. Maybe have it take an extra second or two to lock the engines so that performing reverses without locking them is faster, thus rewarding piloting skill.
• Tooltips for the toggle key and for the Hover Frame certs should both specifically mention how it helps when attemptign to go in reverse
• Some sort of training video/tutorial easily accessible and/or viewable in-game that shows basic flight mechanics. Even if it's just a dialog box question that pops up in VR and/or when you first access an ESF terminal that if accepted can minimize the game and launch the ESF training video that they already have.
• Some sort of visual cue on the Scythe to let you know what position your engines are in (this is a personal peeve of mine and a big disadvantage for new VS pilots)

All nerfing this maneuver will do is reduce the skill ceiling for dogfighting and take it one step closer to simple whoever-sees-the-enemy-first-wins or whoever-has-the-most-ESFs-wins. It removes player choice and makes it that much harder for new pilots to try to pull off such a maneuver, thus increasing the skill gap between new players and vet pilots, since vets equipped with Hover 3 can still perform reverses (I've tried it on the PTS, it still works, although the reverse arcs you fly in are much smaller).

If any pilot can't fight in the sky simply because of the adjustment of "one" thrust maneuver... they don't deserve to call themselves pilots in the first place.

The only reason why the "ace" pilots are being vocal is because they now can't roflstomp noobies. I personally don't fly because of this maneuver. It's not because I can't do it, it's because it takes the fun out of flying. They flying in this game is a joke. It's very arcade like and not very enjoyable at all. I'm not saying I want a simulator style flight system but I don't want a flight system that moves like you're playing standard mmorpg character.

If the changes on the pts went live now they would have literally zero effect on how well a novice pilot can do in the air. I know this for a fact because I've actually spent time fighting in the air on the pts. I can still identify a new player in a second, just from the way they move, and usually kill them before they are able to look at me. It's in the very nature of air combat to be incredibly unforgiving. If you can't be bothered learning to fly now, you won't start just because of this change.

Can you think of a single combined arms multiplayer game where a new player can accomplish anything in the air without first taking hours of practice in an empty server? It's stupid to sacrifice the thing which makes air in this game fun in a misguided attempt to get newer players into the air.

As some posters have pointed out the main problem with getting new pilots flying in this game isn't the hover afterburner manoeuvres existing, it's that the mechanics of the esf are unintuitive and basically flat out secrets that aren't so much as vaguely hinted at in game. There's nothing to clue you in and you aren't likely to figure it out with common sense, because the mechanics make no sense.

A lot of people beg to differ here.


The flight model is overall enjoyable, or at least better than a "normal" model where you have tail chases you can't turn around and circlejerks ala BF3. The RVM offers the possibility for both aircraft to shoot at eachother during the duel. It's enjoyable by both pilots compared to a classic Hunter-Prey where one can only fly to a safe zone to stay alive.

The explanation for this nerf is simple: Higgby wants to be a pilot but can't do a reverse.

I don't even know where to start with this post.

First, ace pilots are going to roflstomp people even harder after this because they're going to be the only ones with the certs/practice to still be able to do the reverse maneuver.

Second, PS2 has an extremely unique flight model. Why exactly do you dislike it? I see that you think it's too arcadey, but is that really a bad thing in a game that's more like Halo then Ghost Recon?

Third, why does the reverse turn stuff feel like you're playing a standard MMORPG character? The entire thing is twitch based game play which to me is the opposite of what you find in an RPG.

Might be a precursor to the ESF revamp? just a speculative thought

i get it now nerf the reverse maneuver to force experienced pilots to buy the new weapons... now the new weapons will be competitive now, otherwise they will run around with the rotary and AB as usual.

If this is their management style i am not buying into this game any more...

So it seems this is the reason some people support the nerf.

I can't do it so i think it deserves a nerf....

My accuracy with infantry weapons (close range) is not that good so i don't play infantry much, i tank/esf and snipe and support. But does this mean i want all infantry weapons to be nerfed so there ttk is like in tf2 where aiming skill is not really that important?

The only reason you dont like it because you get shot down... this is a pretty bad attitude since this is a failing only on ur side not because some mechanic is op or unfair

Why are we typing so small?

To get more people in the air they need to firstly give full customizable controls and/or better flightstick/ gamepad response.

I have a tonne of certs sitting, waiting to be spent, spent some on my ESF but i cant fly at all, is a glorified taxi, just give me the option HOW to fly it.

Or have they done this and i missed it?

for easy reading

From Higby on reddit;

Reverse maneuver is fine, it's a totally valid way to play ESFs, just like using Rocket Jumps is a totally valid maneuver to use in Quake 3 Arena. If the entire game of Q3A came down to who rocket jumped first / best and that's it, it'd be boring & one-dimensional. That's our air-to-air game in a nutshell right now, whoever is best at performing the reverse maneuver generally will win. We're trying to bring some more options and depth into air-to-air, and part of that is going to be keeping the reverse maneuver, but having players make tradeoffs if they want to take full advantage of it

All i ever wanted was a locust cannon...
Flying takes time and certs and that shouldnt change

All i see here is some 1 trick ponies that are upset now that their 1 trick no longer enables them to pwn everyone that tries to learn to fly. This is great for the game and will mean that more people will fly and try this much underused aspect of the game. In turn this means people are around longer ( something to do besides fight on the ground) and pop's will stay higher for longer. Now these "talented" individuals will have to learn a few more manouvers and maybe just maybe stumble across the next trick meaning more variation and less boring repeat same manouver type gameplay but they can't even see it themselves as they are so focused on that 1 trick that diferentiates the experienced from the new.

I think he pretty much said "its not because i can't do it" - that does tend to mean he can do it and that is not the reason ( reading comprehension ftw). You on the other hand seem to fall into the i'm leet cos i can do 1 trick brigade and seem very upset that you may actually have to learn to fly a little which is probably the worst attitude to a games longevity that there can be. Go on give it a try you might just like it.

BTW CQC did get nerfed as a response to all the QQ on the forums about people not able to compete with shotguns as they were not as good at using them

Dog-fighting should be dependent on piloting skills, as in being able to get behind the other person and stay there. Shaking someone should require you to fly somewhere or do something he can't or won't. Maybe it's just that I like flight sims and wish PS2 was more like them, but being able to fly AWAY from your enemy while keeping your guns pointed at them is the stupidest and most broken thing I have ever heard of.

I CAN do it, it's not difficult at all once you understand the mechanic by which it is done. Just slow down and rotate until your momentum shifts and hit the boosters, that's all there is to it. It is a low skill ceiling gimmick and any airchavs who have convinced themselves doing this makes them pro need to stop sniffing glue.

Dude.

The reverse maneuver is usually defensive. That's what you don't get.
90% of the A2A kills are sealed the moment you spot your target. If you get the jump on another aircraft and he doesn't see you or have you on its radar, it will die, period. Get a good angle on a hovering aircraft ? It dies.

Thanks to the RVM you actually have a chance of fighting back.
EXCEPT THE GUY WHO ENGAGED YOU STILL HAS THE JUMP.


For every player using the RVM, there's a guy chasing flying normally.
At this point it's just a contest of AIMING.

Its a bad choice, but apparently they are going through with it.