[Suggestion] Does anyone else think the semi-auto rifles could use a buff?

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the semi-auto sniper rifles. Do you regularly use them effectively? If so, as effectively as other weapons like SMGs, LMGs, bolt-actions etc?

I've been using the Phantom & Nyx (VS semi-auto scout rifle) quite a lot recently. Here are my observations.

Spectre:

• Hits hard but is generally a 4-shot kill due to nanoweave & distance.
• Loses a lot of accuracy if you compensate for recoil and fire again before the recoil resets - which is what you do with every other gun barring bolt-action rifles which are a law unto themselves.
• Loses a lot of accuracy if you move while firing.
• Has poor hip fire accuracy, which is acceptable for a sniper rifle.

Phantom:

• Same damage model & falloff as the Spectre.
• Much longer reload, for some reason.
• Also loses a lot of accuracy if you compensate for recoil and fire again before the recoil resets.
• Also loses a lot of accuracy if you move while firing.
• Also has poor hip fire accuracy.
• Has a very slow time-to-ADS. That is, the time it takes to transition from hip-fire to aiming down sights.
• Has sway, which is odd for 1-4x optics. I get that it's a big weapon, but so are LMGs and they don't sway. Neither do rocket launchers.

Nyx:

• Lower damage per hit and much lower falloff range, typically takes 1-2 more hits to kill against nanoweave.
• Faster RoF on paper and in practice.
• Less recoil.
• Much less CoF bloom per shot, 0.3 compared to the Phantom/Spectre's 1.0.
• Much less CoF bloom when moving.
• Nice and quick time-to-ADS.

I use a 2x sight and forward grip with both of them, no compensator.

Comparison chart here.

I get that we're supposed to wait for the recoil and therefore CoF to reset and that is exactly what I do at longer ranges, especially with the Spectre. But that significantly lowers the killing speed of the weapon and that matters a lot with the Phantom and almost as much with the Spectre. You simply need to get as many hits as fast as possible when you're staring at the wrong end of an LMG from 30-60 meters.

The result for me was that the Phantom missed at some surprisingly short ranges, and it was clunky, slow and - crucially - not really very much fun to use. I always felt like I was fighting against the gun as much as my opponent, and seeing the bloody thing send a bullet to the left or right of my target when I'm aiming at centre mass from <30 meters was very frustrating.

The Nyx by comparison is very responsive and easy to handle, has 2 extra rounds per mag, reloads faster, doesn't sway, blooms significantly less, and even has decent hipfire. It generally needs an extra hit or three to kill, but despite the lower muzzle velocity it was always easier for me to keep landing hits with this than the Phantom. On top of that this gun is *very* quiet even without a supressor, and that was a noticeable benefit on several occasions. I enjoyed using it and I'll be using it more often from now on.

My opinion:

• The differences in damage model, falloff range, recoil, hipfire accuracy, mag size, reload time, and noise level are enough to distinguish the semi-auto scout rifles from the semi-auto sniper rifles.
• There's no need to skill-cap the Phantom/Spectre/NC+TR variants with massive ADS CoF bloom when moving or firing before the recoil has reset, sway, and a long time-to-ADS.

Therefore:

• Cut ADS CoF while crouching, standing, crouch-moving and stand-moving by 60%.
• Remove sway from all weapons with 1-4x optics attached.
• Bring the Phantom's time-to-ADS back in line with other weapons; currently I can aim my LMGs faster than my Phantom. Really, it takes about the same time to ADS as a rocket launcher.
• Perhaps a small damage buff for the Spectre/NC+TR variants to maintain the 3-shot kill vs. nanoweave 4.

With any luck that can make them competitive again. If they're not given some sort of love I fear that when the straight-pull bolt attachment for BASRs is released with the infiltrator update, they'll graduate from merely being the worst-performing rifles (going by PS2-stats.com) and simply become totally obsolete.

As always I'm interested in everyone's thoughts, please discuss but try to be constructive.

I'd love to see a laser sight available for the Nyx/Imptetus/TR Variant (I don't know the name) because if I need to hipfire it would be useful. Still I think that all semi auto sniper rifles/scout rifles/battle rifles need to be looked at in a balance pass for them, specifically.

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that they certainly need some changes. Right now accurate fire with the semi-auto snipers kills people in the same amount of time as the faster bolt-actions with body shots. The semi-auto scouts at least feel more usable and you can get much better damage out of them due to their recoil buff but even they aren't great by any means. In general semi-autos are kind of an oddball in this game. Auomatic weapons kill as fast or faster, generally are easier to control and do better in Oh ****! moments due to their spray and pray ability.

One of their worst failings is bullet velocity, they generally have a velocity that makes sense for bolt-actions given their one hit kill potential but which on a semi-auto winds up hurting them a lot since they just aren't as good at range as other options. Outside that recoil and accuracy for multiple shots gets problematic, this was partially fixed with the semi-auto scouts but the semi-auto snipers never got any help and I wouldn't rate the semi-auto scout as having gained any real extra use because of this change alone. Damagewise I'd like to see them performing with good recoil and projectile velocity first, but a boost to their damage per bullet/Rate of fire couldn't hurt.

It might also be a good idea to give them some more attachments (Compensators, Flash Suppressors etc.) and remove scope sway. I still feel scope sway is more of a counter to one hit kills whereas the semi-autos suffer more due to their multi-shot nature.

All the semi auto scout rifles need ADS on move accuracy buff and slight damage buff.

All auto scout rifles need ADS on move accuracy buff and slight decrease on horizontal recoil.

All semi auto sniper rifles need to have ADS on move accuracy greatly improved. The reason these weapons can not be used is that you have to stand still to shoot. Standing still and shooting 5~ bullets is just not viable, you will end up dead. This would make the semis actually useful while clearly separated from the bolt action snipers.

like a no sway buff yeah.

If you're gonna use a semi you might as well pick up an auto-tube and just spray away like all the other grunts

This has been something I’ve been hoping for them to do for a very long time. I love these weapons and I’ll likely continue to use them, but they definitely have issues.

I'd say just remove the sway from 1x, 2x, and iron sights. I feel like if it wasn't on the 3.4x and 4x I'd probably never bother with my Gauss SPR over my Impetus, since I can still hit targets with reliable accuracy 100m out and a bit beyond.

As far as fixing the rifles, personally, I think the biggest killer of both the semi-auto sniper AND scout rifle are their accuracy loss per shot values. I understand its purpose on the sniper, to make precision shots the focus on more effective method rather than brute forcing the clip down range. However if you need a third shot, which unless you can reliably land perfect double tap headshot you often do thanks to nanoweave, the current values have it being influenced enough by CoF growth to have a chance to miss regardless of aim. I absolutely has to be reduced enough to at least make the third successive shot reliable.

The scout on the other hand was rebalanced to be a midrange weapon in GU07 but that left it kind of awkward. It's CoF growth is too strong to be accurate at mid during successive fire, and you can't simply pause like one would do with a sniper rifle if you're working midrange any fire is being exchanged. Also it's recoil recovery ratio is terrible (recoil to recovery rate) beaten out even by shotguns. With a value of just 8 it's recover is only faster than full on sniper rifles. Though oddly enough the battle rifle's is 15 (and a CoF growth of .1 while we're at it.) Does a single damage tier really warrant such a disparity?


So for me the most imperative changes I feel need to made without going overboard:
Semi-Sniper:
-Reduce ADS accuracy loss per shot (CoF bloom) from 1 to .75 (to allow a more reliable third shot)
-Reduce ADS standing movement CoFs (as has already been suggested)
-Remove Sway from 1x, 2x, and iron sights only. (Especially if the Bolt Action variant gets the same treatment)

Semi-Scout
-Reduce the ADS Accuracy loss per shot from (CoF bloom) from .3 to 1.5-.2
-Increase rate of recoil recovery from 8 to 10-12.

Especially since Nanoweave is more powerful now.

I'd say cut the autosniper's recoil by a lot, and the semi-scouts to almost nil.

I think the more limiting factor is the extremely bad on move accuracy and accuracy penalty on follow up shots.

The cone of fire bloom while moving and on repeated shots is what hamstrings them. The recoil should remain imo otherwise we'd just have 400-damage laser-beams.

Not that I disapprove of laser beams in general.

Yeah, this right here.

There are some thing that the player can adapt and compensate for, like sway, bullet drop, velocity, and all related recoil stats. All they truly effects is how much skill you need to execute in any given situation, so adjusting them is more on the end of quality of life.

Because there are weapon stats that are foundational. They're are constant and unavoidable, you have to deal with in every situation, and no real means of player compensation will have a bearing on them. These are things like CoF bloom, base CoF values, rate of fires, damage values, min/max damage ranges, and so forth.

The foundation stats are core strengths and weaknesses of a weapon, that are then fleshed out or balanced with the quality of life stats. So I definitely feel the foundation is where the most imperative changes are needed to make the skill execution worth it, and carve out a niche for the Semi-Auto sniper rifle. Right now it feels a little bit like it's trying too hard like a younger brother trying to emulate their older sibling when it has the potential to be stronger elsewhere.

I would make it a 2x Burst weapon with a .75 First Shot Multiplier like the SABR-13, and make the COF Bloom low enough that the second shot isn't impacted by the blooming.

Hehe it is interesting to see everyone actually feeling the same way about these weapons. Hopefully we can get this stuff changed

imo the phantom is awesome close range if a bit spammy Im not sure if it needs bufffing much but wouldn't mind them getting rid of the sway for short - medium range scopes, seriously sway on a 1x reflex why ?

Considering sony was too incompetent to think that cloakies with SMG's that compare to rifles was OP don't count on them fixing the rifles instead. Things will continue to suck. If you want to play iniltrator do what everyone else does and equip an SMG, sneak around and derp people at close range.

They're going to release x3 burst semi-auto rifles soon; they will deal less damage per shot than current SASR.

I dont know about the other factions guns, but the Nyx does have the laser sight available.

Is the Nyx the Semi Auto Sniper Rifle with Iron Sights/Close Range Sights or the Semi Auto Scout Rifle? I was trying to talk about the Semi Auto Sniper Rifles with Iron Sights/Close Range Sights.

Semi auto scout

Sounds interesting, I hadn't heard that. Source?