Small Outposts: Move Cap point inside the spawnroom (use the mechanic from the facility outposts to flip the point, so it takes around 1 min to flip) replace current cap points with scu or shieldgenerators to remove the spawnroom shield (overcharge 2-3 mins) Biolab Place an additional final cap point inside the spawnroom, replace the other cap points with the ones from the facility outpost, once you hold them it take 5 mins until the scu generator can be overcharged leave the rest as it is Amp Station replace A with a shield generator to get access to scu(timer for generatir around 5 min) move A inside Main Spawn room Tech Plant replace A with SCU shield generator move A inside spawn room leave the rest untouched pros: - final fight for the cap point, spawncamping reduced, intense fight from beginning to the end - base flips after the final fight, no more pointless waiting - capping empty bases or capping bases alone take as long as now - doable with exsisting ingame mechanics cons: - you will find them explanation: I think the current gameplay is as much fun and thrill as it is boring and frustrating. I would love to see the frustrating and boring parts removed. i would really appreciate a short term solution to the hole base capture mechanic, so this is what this idea is for. there are lots of interesting ideas for long term improvement of current capture mechanics, but i think we need some change faster than it will take to implement some of the great ideas out there. I've put this for a reason not in the ideas&suggestion forums. I think we really need a discussion inside the community whether the current spawn system should stay or whether it should change. Do we need to reduce waiting time, spawncamping and boredom or do you like it the way it is? to the mods: if you feel the need to move it, move it. the force is with you
Relax. Wait until the Sunderer No-Deploy zones are implemented. You'll get your amazing fights there and then.
The majority of small outpost's flip quickly so any further way to speed them up isn't needed Imo. Players need reaction time to spot the trouble and relocate to try and defend. I'm really not a fan of SCU's , they become the primary objective in taking a base when capping the base should be. They should reverted to what was a good change and the Spawn ability being governed solely by the capture bar ( no clue why they changed it ) How the current system works with the shields dropping is kinda pointless .. At that point the base s 95% of the time lost , so just lowering the cap time on Facilities would have achieved the same thing . Not sure why they thought it be good to drop the shields and make you still wait rather than leave as it was and knock 2mins off the cap time
What has this to do with no deploy zones? Where did i mentioned that i don't have any amazing fights? Do you read my full post? Same question, did you read my post? It won't speed up capture times in small outposts. I wrote overcharge could last 2-3 mins, flipping the point another 1 min, makes 4, like now. Spawn will be disabled after 3. Current system is 4 min. But if you move the cappoint inside the spawnroom the defenders might hold the base longer cause of the final battle. You will have to overwhealm the defenders to finally cap the base. Now it's siegeside2 most of the time and it's boring. A final battle could be fun and it's clear to everyone(even new players) why the base is lost. It will probably speed up fights in the facilities under certain circumstances (no defenders around). But as it is now in biolabs the fight could be over after 2-3mins, while you have to wait 7 mins for the base to flip, so we already have fast "fights" ---------------------- We could even let the bases as they are now, and simply add another cap point inside the bases. So fights will stay the same as they are now, with the exception that the capping of the current points will fade the spawnroomshields after some time(or SCU shields, depending on the base type) and you have to attack the spawnroom for the final cap point in order to take the base. A change like this will be really interesting in large spawn rooms. Since GU11 i move upstairs in a biolab spawnroom and try to defend the attackers. Sadly most of my comrades are gone by that time, cause there is no reason to stay. Fighting upstairs to finally cap the base could be much more fun than the current kind of siege and wait, which sadly happens more often than interesting fights.
No, I instantly TL;DR'd it. No deploy zones: Fight from faraway sundy to cap point, instead of only in the base itself. lululu
Something does need to be done with the spawn room camp that ensues after almost every battle. However the defender needs that final charge ability to have that last minute re-secure. While I don't necessarily like your idea, I love the fact your trying to come up with a solution rather than just get upset about it. Nobody likes the ends fight at the base.
I allways wanted to know what TL;DR means, what does it stand for? Sorry, but ams no deploy zones are another topic, they will alter base fights, but they will not change the end stage of base fights, which is the topic of this thread. What final charge ability? Last minute resecures are necessary only because the main objective of the base is not where the majority of the defenders are located (which is dumb, from a strategic point of view ). You can hold a building for a certain amount of time if you have good teamplay, so you could theoretically hold such a base a while. Last minute reinforcements will help the defenders more than now, if they still hold the cap point. This will only affect the last stage of a battle and you will have to really capture a base, not siege and wait for a timer. If the defenders are overwhelmed the base is lost and any reinforcements on the way could be to late to resecure and have to start a counter attack instead. I guess this could be overall more epic than now, at least i hope so
Any advantage to no-deploy zone is offset by the fact in the last ptr patch, you can walk across the top of domes bypassing most defenses. Fights may end up shorter (and dumber) if those changes make live.
Guess they could have and instant flip cap point in the tunnels under Amp/Tech plants ...Once the shields drop flipping that would cap the base regardless of time left . Gives the defender a last " defensible " position, gives the attackers an added but not necessary final objective . Not sure what they could do in Bio's though. But SOE + defensible probs means it will be on the roof
Wrong. What you'll get is incredibly lazy defenders, and a massively unnecessary advantage to defenders in 1/3rd of base fights. Those 'key' bases will then become zerg targets, where meat will be ground all day until someone storms them with 4 times the number of people, and guess what? That still won't be fun. This guys ideas won't fix anything either, but hey, at least he's trying...
yeah, without a try nothing will ever change to the better. how would you solve spawncamping? or isn't it an issue for you?
I think it was implemented to give the defenders a chance to get into position or organise a counter attack at the next base, whilst the attackers wait for the XP. I could be wrong. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You can find yourself spawning at the next base to find tanks and ESFs already waiting for you.
It really depends what you define as spawn camping. If you mean spawning in a base that's under attack, walking outside and dying, cry more, for serious. If you mean waiting 5 minutes with your gun pointing at a spawn shield in case the one guy inside lags out and steps forwards by mistake, because there's nothing else for you to do in the game unless you're happy to not get your XP and redeploy elsewhere, it's definitely an issue and solving it is virtually impossible. I think the sacrifice that needs to be made (and can be, now that the lattice has dumbed everything down so much) is to remove the opportunity to counter-attack. There's no real loss here; battles will still be fought over bases and between bases, just that they'll start either because someone has taken a step into your territory and you now realise you need to push them back, or because you're both trying to take the next adjacent territory and fighting as consequence. Higher pops will make the latter the only real situation, which is no bad thing imho. Also, in what I'm about to propose, counter attacks will actually still exist, just they'll involve far more speed and organisation... So here we go... Taking a Tech Plant as an example. The cap point is expanded to be the entire floor the 'flag' sits on. We return to cap speed being altered by how many people are on the point. Base cap speed is slowed by 100-200%, somewhere around 20 minutes for a cap with 0 people on it (ghost capping be gone). Next, there is a second 'point'; the defense area. This is the entirety of the rest of the building, and its courtyards, but not the spawn room. Now the kicker. These points can each count up to 48 people. 48 attackers can sit around their small attack area, and with a logarithmic bonus (so the first person might give a 10% speed bonus, whilst the last gives a 1% speed bonus). This works out to be a high enough % that with 48 uncontested attackers, the capture time is reduced to say 3 minutes. Why do I say uncontested attackers? Because in the total defense area (which includes the attack area, as well as the rest of the base) every person counted (up to 48) is one person's speed subtracted FROM THE LARGE BONUS end of the attacking group. This would mean in the 48 attackers example, where the first attacker is a 10% speed bonus, the second 9.5%, and the last 1%, the first defender would cancel 10% speed bonus, the second 9.5% etc. So now we get a number of possible situations. You and a small bunch of your leetfit get into the cap point and sit on it. There's 12 of you. There's at least a platoon defending: be prepared to hold that base for the full cap time. If 36 of your guys get in to support you, you're still fighting even numbers, so it's going to be a good fight still, so the cap time is still balanced. Throw an extra 12 guys onto your point, and nothing happens because the 48 person limit has been met. Next, you roll all 48 of your platoon into a Tech plant. There's no resistance, so rather than force you all to circle jerk onto a biscuit, the game speeds up the wait. A competing leetfit see this and quickly redeploy, getting 12 of their guys into the base. If they stay in the spawn, NOTHING HAPPENS. But the moment they walk out, just the 12 of them takes the largest part of your speed bonus, slowing down the cap and giving time for more reinforcements to arrive. If the 12 of them are only an annoyance because they're not that leet after all, you beat them back into their spawn room, and suddenly they're having no effect on the speed of the cap again. The above example in reverse (zerg rolls into your tech plant) might mean that you really need time to get your forces equipped to push them back out, meaning you need to redeploy elsewhere. You can do this, and chance that you can be fast enough to get them back off the point before it flips, or you are forced to start using some strategy. Maybe one of your squads is outfit only and the others are pub. Send the pubs off to piss about and get tanks and air, whilst your crack team make sure the zerg are contested, buying time for your reinforcements. Now let's look at annoying scenarios. 48v96 is a great battle. Yes, it's 2:1, but especially when considering zerg vs organisation, it's still good. This system means that any battle larger than platoon vs platoon will always take the maximum amount of time, giving you more battle to enjoy, even if they've got enough people to sit on all 3 points to get the maximum bonus (a problem the previous system faced). It's 2am and one guy decides it'll be great to flip all the cap points along the lattice. Great. It's going to take 20 minutes for those bases to flip; there WILL be a guy on your team that gets there in time to stop that happening. Small squads will also be able to easily see which base people are still in even if there's only a couple, because it'll be showing a 30% increase in speed, rather than 300% (arbitrary numbers, of course). In the mean time, it has a huge incentive to work with your team during the small hours; a 6v3 battle is no fun, and leaving the enemy zerg unchecked will simply allow them to warpgate you in quarter of an hour. You'll still get an intense fight simply because the only way to make progress territory-wise is to be with a team, and that team is such a threat to the enemy that they'll come out to fight you too. If you're more skeptical and disagree with that last bit, then my other feeling is that continents should be scaled depending on population, but that's a whole other story, and I'm already drunk enough to have probably made no sense. TL;DR: Metagame involves demanding thought and providing encouragement, not reducing brain-usage and providing rewards. Encouragement=Good. Reward=Bad. Encouragement=/=Reward.
I like this for a number of reasons: From a fictional perspective, it doesn't make sense that hackable terminals would be left in the open. From a mechanical perspective, it removes X minutes of spawn-camping and replaces them with defenders having to come from OUTSIDE the base to try and re-secure it. This results in a more balanced and interesting fight over a base with both teams having Sunderers around it, a fight that doesn't end the second the base flips control. It reduces the chance of arriving at an enemy base only to discover you can't do anything because an enemy snuck onto the friendly base behind you. It removes that weird situation where defenders can lose a base despite having the tower with spawn room and cap point completely secure. I would implement it slightly differently to the OP though, with only generators instead of capture terminals outside the spawn rooms, and some changes to the way generators work: Small Outposts: Replace the capture point with an SCU. 3-point Bases: Replace the capture point closest to the spawn room with an SCU, and replace the other two with shield generators that protect the SCU Bio-labs: Replace the capture points with additional shield generators. For the SCU to become exposed, a certain number of generators must be taken down. Tech Plants: Replace the capture point with the shield generator for the SCU. Amp Stations: Replace the capture point with a shield generator for the SCU. Generator Mechanics: Give generators a stability bar that goes up or down depending on who last flipped the generator. This won't change the time it takes to destroy a generator, but will stop defenders from instantly stabilising them. Instead, the time it takes until the generator stabilises is equal to the length of time it has been de-stabilising. When a generator is repaired, it has low stability (so if attackers respond quickly, it won't take 2 minutes to destroy a generator that took much less time to repair). Too long; didn't read.
As long as the amount of time needed to overload the SCU was the same amount of time needed to turn off spawning now, I can see this working. Any less time then that and this is just a "gimme" to have defenders not able to spawn at the base to defend. I don't really see the point in this, though, as this virtually doubles the capture time.
That was a part of my suggestion Taking down the outer generators should take as long as turning off scu shields now. It's all about once the defenders are gone cause you disabled and stormed their spawnroom, the base should flip. Every other aspect of base fights will not be touched by my suggestion. I will answer to the other large post later the day.
Hm, i like the concept behind, including active number of players into capture alghorithms. Could lead to some interesting fights. My fear would be performance issues due to constant need to know of player locations for the base flipping mechanism instead of just a timer. Anyways i can see this working, but i would change it so you need an upper hand to damage the infrastructue(generators) and effect their timers, but you still need to storm the spawn and flip that point inside to finally conquer the base. For teh very same reasons i startetd this thread. Your improvements are even better, very good, i like them Thanks for the explanation of TL;DR
