Medics removing death stat = bad gameplay

This.
Revives removing a death rewards low-risk play.
Stay near the spawn shields and you will NEVER TAKE A DEATH. NEVER. You get revived and return to the spawn shield, then redeploy when the enemy is taking the base.

On the other hand, the team that actually tries to push an objective and fails will be punished with deaths on their record... Even though they were being infinitely more useful to their team.

I'm not sure why this was added or if it's as bad as some say it will be.
I also doubt their will be more medics or people waiting for revives.

What about killboards now? The kill will show up on the killer's board, but at the same time the death won't? Or are they just going to scrap the killboards?

Oh good, the one line item from the patch notes that got my short hairs up was already posted about.

Yeah, this is not a positive change. KDR? Don't really care. It's always been kind of meaningless and you've always been able to do cheesy things to manipulate it.

However, the majority of people in this game for some reason DO STILL CARE about their KDR, and this will only encourage them to lie there dead, waiting for a medic, instead of actively returning to the battle from a nearby spawn. We also did *not* need more motivation for people to play medic; large facility fights are already swarming with huge clusters of worthless medics who do nothing but leave their revive gun out, waiting for a lifeless body to pounce on. We did not need more incentive for bad players to sit there in a medic suit and leave their rifle slung over their back, which is going to be a second-order effect of this change.

K/D is a poor standard to compare skill to anyways.

To start, as pointed out by you, it is far too easy to pad the numbers. Spawn room camping or Alt-F4'ing to avoid deaths and only get kills skews the data. People spawn room camp because they know that there will always be an abundant supply of targets waiting outside, and there isn't that much skill involved in shooting at a target that can't shoot back. Before the site is captured you can place down a few mines and redeploy, saving yourself from any death. Alt-F4 people at least move about in the world but as soon as a fight doesn't go their way they simply Alt-F4 and avoid any damaging death marks, thus relogging in at the warpgate and grabbing a new vehicle.

Second reason is that K/D's favor the attack classes and punishes support. Engineers in particular spend half or more of the battle repping vehicles, maxes, and turrets. They dispense ammo to those who are shooting. They keep the generators running and the load out panels in one piece. Medics heal the wounded and revive the dead. What it boils down to is we keep you alive so you can get the kills. But K/D doesn't recognize any of that, so by your own standards that medic or engineer with a low K/D may look terrible in your book but in reality he's doing more for the group than anyone else. As a full time engineer myself, if I looked out for numero uno then perhaps my K/D will go up; but in the meanwhile we may have just lost a base because everyone ran out of ammo and all the tanks blew up. My K/D doesn't really help the situation now, does it?

Third reason is that it doesn't include assists. One forum warrior once stated that if you don't have a K/D of at least 1:1, you are considered a bad player. First of all it is virtually impossible for everyone to have a K/D of 1:1, simply being that for every kill there must be a death, and if a player kills 20 people then up to 20 people have died. And as this is a group oriented game, the chance that multiple people shooting at the same target is very high. Your metric of skill in this instance is based on who gets the final shot. There is no skill in performing that task, its just how the dice rolls. Because of the lack of adding assists to a K/D, a player may assist in the deaths of 20 people before he gets killed again. Again, like support roles K/D doesn't recognize this, it only see's that you have died without achieving any kills.
This is especially bad for Liberator and Galaxy pilots who tend to not spend much time shooting at all, but they put other people in the position to do great amounts of damage, and in doing so they receive a number of assists kills but only assists and no actual kills for their role.

If you really want K/D to mean something then:

• Medics should also receive a point when healing you while you kill
• Engineers should receive a point while fixing you while you kill
• Avatar log out timers should be installed
• Deaths should not count when shooting from the spawn room
• Assist should be included in the statistic.

I think you'll find that the K/D based skill metric will change significantly then.

I think the issue here is if you think KD is causing bad play you may as well remove it, adding something like this just makes the numbers worthless why keep them if they are worthless?

As usual there are too many people here who think high KD = ******* too, some people do genuinely play aggressively and achieve great scores and its reflected there, campers might not die but their score/hour will be trash as well. Its about knowing how to read the stats. Some of us lone wolf and do pretty good at it, its a nice boost to know your pulling more than your weight.

I mean on Matherson, Vonics probably has 2x my KD (which is good) yet I can guarantee that he doesn't hide either, he plays aggressive and reaps the benefits he is just better than I am which is why his stats would say he is better than I am!

The real problem here if any is the people who hide to get a good KD because they can't face up to being poor players. I have quite a few friends who play this game who use it as a convenient measuring stick for if they have improved or not which sounds pretty fair to me.

ITT : People with a lot of assumptions on how this will play out.

it is just another:
"F \_/ c k you, Light Assault!!"-moment to me.
People who die at places a medic can actually reach get 20.000/0 stats, while someone trying to flank enemies will have a K/D of 0.9 or something. Since people dieing on a roof can't be revived.

For people not interested in K/D nothing will change (except for slightly better K/D), for people caring about it will result in MASSIVE amounts of medics (I think) because people will accept revives at hilarious places (like in the middle of a tank battle) and people accepting revives by medics with uncerted med-guns. Furthermore staying in places where you are completely safe to be revived will be rewarded.

PS:
I was proud to get good K/Ds... there won't be much to be proud of I guess.

Right it boils down to having 2 options.

1) Rush into the enemy position and have almost 0 chance of getting rezzed
2) Stay in your defensive blob and have a 100% chance of getting rezzed

Guess which one lots of people start picking

People randomly waiting in a field to be respawned... Okay, how does that take away from gameplay? Stupid people already sit and wait for revives.. they were not contributing much in the first place, so that is one less idiot who will likely TK by accident. Will this happen to 100% of people the instant this goes live? Because that is what it will take for your statement to hold up, and differentiate things from they are now. That is points 1 and 3. As to point 4... who cares, if two people want to compare their digital dicks, I'm sure they'll find a way.

And ffs, the hand hold thing again? That isn't an statement of anything, but an attempt to devalue things so you don't have to rely on facts to support on your opinion. I'm sorry, but I can't take this seriously anymore, you dropped the ball. So here is a dog with a hat:

Yeah ... but that destroys it as a numerical system. Normally, for every kill there is a death, with the exception of a few suicides here and there. What this means is that the average K/D before this patch could be statistically assumed to be right about 1.0 or slightly lower. Because the kill isn't erased like the death on revive, average K/D will inflate to an unknown point above 1.0, and make it impossible for player to know where they fall in the K/D distribution.

Personally, I'd either like to see this revive change be reverted, OR the killer's kill should be removed. It would encourage people to kill the medics to earn their kills and make them tactically significant, and keep the system at the stable 1.0 K/D average.

i'm not focused on any jobb, i'm all over the place.. certed into all different stuff.. i'm only rocking a 1.5 K/D, but at times me session K/D are way higher.. and at times way lower.. depends on what jobb i'm doing, how the enemy is positioned and what kind of armor/air support or terain advantage..
i'm usualy platoon leader so i've masterd the "looking at map proffesion"..

I still hold firm to the statement that K/D meens nothing.. even 2 frontline infantry fighters of the exactly same skill can have way different K/D depending on there outfit's tactics, faction population(Local/world) and other factors like factionweapons behaviour and more

you may be right in what you are saying, but your knowledge of the english language (or perhaps your readiness of using it correctly) is far away from being perfect. (I'm no grammar ****, but your post is really hard to read : D)

PS:
why is N@Z1 a forbidden word?

I smell a lot of "If" here.

If this will actually precipitate this change. If people will notice.

As to KDR farming... yes, because that doesn't happen now at ALL. Nope, never. Well, except always. This devalues it though. So someone can go: "Wooo, I have a KDR of 15!" Wow, that means that they are the same as every one else that is there. What is the value of this? Saying something is bad, because stupid people will continue to do the same thing they are already doing doesn't stand up. Putting a wall infront of the ocean to stop lemmings might not work, the lemmings could go around it... this doesn't stop anything, because they are still Lemmings.

Then say you don't care about kdr.

It's only means something if you care about it which many people do. If you don't care about it would shouldn't care about how it is tracked. Let people who do care about it talk about how it is tracked

anyone who came from BF3 (me) always found it odd that being revived didn't remove the death incurred. So now they fixed that, we will see how this goes. This will definitely be an XP boost for medics, more revives will be accepted. If nothing else.

Also just realized, this gives me more of a reason to play necromancer, by tking low health teammates then reviving back to full health, because itsfaster than healing them. Now I dont have to feel bad about adding a death to thier stats.

As an SMG infil most my infantry fighting I can't wait to start camping corpses!

If I want to pad my K/D, I can stay near our spawn shields and never take a death. I'd never get a single death on my record.
Or I could push objectives with my team, sometimes failing and taking a death.
The problem is that the first option makes my stats look better than the second option.

Though personally, I'd prefer that deaths weren't tracked at all. Then everyone would be more likely to push objectives without risk of "ruining their stats".

No it doesn't devalue it at all. it just changes how it's track and a good KDR is not longer 2 or 3. It's now 10-30 if you are focused on it.

1) Rush into the enemy position and have almost 0 chance of getting rezzed
2) Stay in your defensive blob and have a 100% chance of getting rezzed

Guess which one lots of people start picking