Commical trend in ZOE threads.

Look the stats are that it increases damage from 12-20% depending on weapon. Percentage makes a lot of sense to look at it, at least to me. It's an increase, it's not completely insignificant, but it's far from anything truly impactful. When you're firing machine gun weapons at an infantry you probably won't even notice that extra bullet killed them and overkill them with more in most cases.

one rocket normally takes off half health of a max, with zoe you loose 3/4 your health from a rocket. If you have any damage taken at all you're pretty much dead if you get hit by a rocket. Not really seeing where the minor part is coming from.

It is minor because he is mad he can't solo VS Maxes anymore.

Who the heck even runs it for the Damage bonus??

If you sped up everything the NC MAX does like ZOE does and gave it a DAMAGE PENALTY, I'd still play the **** out of it.
(...as opposed to NEVER playing it like I do right now b/c it's a clunky easy to see land monster with only the default stock weapons)...
...A lot like our Reaver actually now that I think about it. Reaver needs a ZOE. Get on it Sony.

+1
Hitting a ZOE MAX? NO PROBLEM.
Hitting those Spaz-Buggies?? NO CHANCE IN HELL. ...all you can do with them is throw down AV mines and hope for the best

He's mostly right but for the wrong reason. Its not that the 20% armor reduction is minor. There is this ethereal value of mitigation provided by movement speed that can (and often does) cause that 20% armor reduction to be negated. (And in some cases even over come)

Lets say the average player runs 33% accuracy for carbines, ARs, and LMG's against players who can strafe at 1.0 M/S. This accuracy comes from a combination of player tracking, leading, and bloom of the gun. Lets also say the faster the target moves the lower the accuracy. So at say 1.5 M/S they only lose 10% accuracy but at 2.0 M/S they lose 30%.

Lets pretend normal MAX is 1.0 Current ZOE is 2.0 and Test Server ZOE is 1.5. Strafing provides you with 66% mitigation from gunfire.

(These are just pretendy numbers keep that in mind) With current ZOE lets say we are losing 30% more accuracy than we normally would so 66 * 1.3 = 85.8% mitigation from small arms.

Now hold on to your butts! A regular MAX has 80% small arms resistance. That means a 2000 HP MAX will take 180 bullets to kill @167 damage. (2000 HP / 33.4 dmg per bullet = 60 bullets*3 as one in 3 bullets hits)

A ZOE MAX will take (2000 HP / 66.8 dmg per bullet = 30 bullets * 6-7 as one in every 6.6~ hits) 180 - 200 bullets to kill.

These stats would come from datamining but this is just an example of how 20% less armor + movement speed can result in an actual net gain (or no change at all) in survivability.

For the sake of completeness*

If the speed was reduced to 1.5 with the imaginary numbers above you'd see 72.6% mitigation from fire or (2000 HP / 66.8 dmg per bullet =30 bullets * ~4 or 120 bullets. Meaning using the ZOE would actually have a downside.

BEFORE anyone says "Where did you get the numbers!" They are imaginary as I stated multiple times in the post. (though I'm pretty sure I've seen the 33% player accuracy stat thrown around at some point so I figured why not.) Its an example to show how movement can effect survivability but as I said player accuracy degradation when faced with faster movement speed is something that is hard to nail down but does exist.

These forums are insane lol
Before the buggy came out people were complaining in the roadmap XD

OK then, get rid of the damage boost, nerf the speed and reduce the armour by 50%. And make it apply some fire debuff on you just to make sure you don't stay alive too long. Oh, and definitely remove the pink, pink is OP.

So, you ignored the DMG Falloff of the MAX guns, you ignored that MAX weapons have no ADS. Then proceeded to compare them with LMG´s like the Gauss SAW?
The SAW, to take one of your examples, is way more deadly and accurate at medium and longrange than any MAX weapon, it is also carried by a HA. That HA has access to a variety of tools on top of said gun. That HA also does not suffer a CD after death.

Like mentioned before, without the increased speed and glowing effect you would never ever notice a difference in the TTK between ZOE and No-Zoe.

And just to prevent the usual complaints: Remove the DMG buff for all I care, with 600+ RoF that matters naught. You can go and construct the most awesome arguments to make 1 bullet more/less sound like a huge impact, but in the end you only die .0xx sec slower.

What's the advantage of doing this? I get it for something like the Comet, so you can keep a steady stream of fire going, but with a large clip and high ROF of the AI weapons, why wouldn't you fire both at the same time? It seems like it just unnecessarily increases your TTK.

Rightfully so. You can still easily solo TR and NC MAXes because concs actually work on them