Pump action shotgun nerf didn't change anything. At all.

Actually, that's exactly what you can do with these things. By the time your opponent has brought your shield down, you have already killed them with the shottie. Easy as.

talk all you want. in the end you made that thread with 'whining' in mind. because you was probably killed by shotgun user. this sounds like whining to me anyway:

and what did these 'constructive discussions' like yours bring anyway? liberator is ruined and almost unusuable due to whining. you want to bring the same fate to shotguns? keep discussing this, i dear ya.
oh and before i forget, i am FAR from being a competent shotgun player, i am not defending anything here, just to let you know

Except for the fact that the GD-7F is a huge pain to hit anything past 20m mixed with the fact that it fires so fast, it will eat through your ammo before you get any reliable kills unless you go single shot, but at that point you can also say that putting slugs on PAS gives it the ability to deal better and more accurate damage past what any CQC's viable range anyways. Put that also to the fact that CQC in this game is so heavily based at the 10m range what other excuses are there. Bases (main and small) are built around the fact to keep the fights close quarters around any capture point. There are no capture points that are in the open (which isnt a bad thing) all of them though are built to allow shotgun users to be just as viable as any CQC alternative weapon. The only time the other ones get a chance is outside 15m, which honestly isn't often enough to make the shotgun the "situational" weapon that people seem to believe it is.

Not necessarily, IMO. Not when they are almost exclusively used indoors.

But they still should not be the ONLY choice for combat at that range.

Any why is buckshot resulting in one shot kills versus armored targets anyway? Ever shoot a car door with a shotgun??

Read the part where I said I just switched to shotgun and immediately got 3 kills myself? No? Explains why you don't understand this topic. Better read again quick!

You say they are ruined, others say they are pretty effective in the right hands. Shotguns aren't. They are onehitkill weapons even in the hand of noobs. Just like liberators were at release. Clicking LMB a single time in CQC is not what can be considered "skill".

And just because SOE might overnerf shotguns is NO reason to not talk about it. What kind of flawed argument is that?

No military in the world uses birdshot. 00 will pass through, and so will slugs.

I'm of the opinion that shotguns should OHK only if you aim for the head, that way you reward skill without sacrificing their CQC capability. They would also feel less cheap.

I think the shotgun nerf helped, its more controllable now. makes it even easier to killz people xD

Before I was just given people Red face paints, now I can add some detail

yeah time for me to join the herd and buy the goddamn GD6-Claw for my medic, for all sort of purpose SOE will not nerf shotgun any further

Obviously not birdshot. Slugs, yes..will blast through a car door like it's butter. But buckshot..the majority will bounce.

I grew up in Vermont....I'm a redneck...I know my shottys

Also, as a bit of an experiment, I hopped on my LA with my Claw tonight. Stupid easy to just fly up to someone and blast them in half.

And to reiterate.....I am not asking for a shotgun nerf. Just that if they are not going to be brought down to reasonable levels, that other weapons meant to be used in the same general ranged be made useful, so that shotguns are not the ONLY choice.

After my tank was destroyed by lock-on missiles I got pissed, and switched to LA with the Piston. Started plowing through guys in Jaeger's Fist.

The problem with nerfing shotgun damage, is that there would no longer be a point in using a shotgun. The strength of a shotgun is that it's extremely strong at close range, nerfing the strength would mean there's no point in picking a shotgun over any other weapon.

The problem right now though is that there is no point in picking up any other weapon for close range fighting.

SOE needs to find a way to make the whole selection of short range weapons viable, so that we can move on from this shotgun festival.

In what way are they unfair? Are they not cross faction? Do not all players have access to them?

My god. First I saw your signature and respected your opinion by the fact you were higher rank than me in your lowest ranked faction than my highest (main) one. I figured of all people I've seen, you'd have a more balanced opinion on weapon balance than anyone else, having played all 3 factions so much. Then this... It's so true. I have been looking at this game all wrong.

I'm so used to the Counter-Strike scene where everyone either uses the AK-47 or the M4A1 (generally) and so I know that I have an even match, that in all situations I'd be on even ground with them. PS2 isn't that, but I keep nerd raging that it isn't.

---Topic---

Personally, I never had a problem with shotguns (except scat-maxes... NEVER did I go up against them in bio-labs unless I was using a shotgun myself.)

Indeed, if you get owned in Close Quarters by a shotgun... Surprise!... One Hit Kills are fairly hard for the average player to get if you're actually trying to avoid their bullets. If you're going up against some monster of a player, then yeah - you're ******.

Like Flamethrowers, or did you have something different in mind?

The shotguns are noticeably weaker with slugs at medium+ range now. If they made them weaker at close range they would be pointless. SMGs would just be better. The TTK for a shotgun should get shorter as you get closer, until it reaches 1 shot (which is how it is now).

There are also big trade-offs for using a shotgun. You can't spray and pray like you can with an SMG and you don't get many shots, every shot has to hit for it to be effective.

A lot of the arguments defending (pump action) shotguns seem to revolve around the first shot missing and then you're hosed.

I have this feeling that this is based on looking at paper values more than real gameplay situations. After all, 0.6 seconds between shots on a pumpshotty is more than the theoretical TTK of other weapons. No denying that.
But then again, your pumpshotty needs to hit 80% of the pellets for 0 second TTK, or 40% for a 0.6 sec TTK. 100% accuracy GD-7F has a theoretical TTK of 0.50 secs (0.497) An 80% accuracy with for example GD-7F is a 0.63 TTK, and 40% becomes 1.28 secs (giving a third attempt to the pumpaction). Not to mention how, even if you win a fight with a carbine or smg, you have a higher chance of sustaining damage - you're worse off in your next encounter or have to slow down to recharge shields/get healed.

If it's so hard to hit a moving target with a pumpaction, it will also be hard to land all shots on a similar target with any other weapon. A spread of pellets can take advantage of shots where only a few pellets hit but there is no "partial damage" for other types of weapons.

Relying on the frontloaded damage to the extent that it causes oneshot kills is a bit much, but SOE set the TTK bar so low with other weapons already that changing the shotguns to require more than one shot to kill in any situations is impossible without sacrificing their "shotgunniness", the whole feel of the weapons. So I don't see a real solution that doesn't include changing all weapons in the game.

edit: Of note is that sniper oneshot kills have a disadvantage in the bullet flight time and as such the avoidance of sniper fire (through erratic movement) is an active part of gameplay. It's not a rock-paper-scissors mechanic; skill on both sides matters to the outcome. Soft counter instead of hard counter.
The impact of skill is still present with regard to shotguns (situational awareness) but once engaged there is no real interaction.

I think pump action shotguns should remove from this game. Infiltrators needs to did well placed shot to kill somebody. And what we see? A guy sneaking with pump-action shotgun can kill everybody with one shot. Doesn't matter fact, that is only on low distance, nobody have no chances against him, he has no ttk, he killing in one moment.

The only or the real problem with ur statement is, that almost 90% of all the generator-, therminal-, or whatever -rooms are only 10 meters long, so 2/3 of those rooms u are in the OHK area, and this sucks.......

Not allways, yesterday for example i had a fight as medic with the VX 6-7 against a enginer with a shotty, i dont know why (spidersense) i turned around where he was and fired first a couple of bullets in his body, but he killed me with 2 shots, he survived almost dead and this is why shottys are soo annoying....