No, I'm saying: why bother to overclock specifically for this game, when it doesn't really matter how awesome your specifications are? The game is terribly optimized and glitches and lags on pretty much anything out there. Every day there's a patch that makes it lag or make it crash, so why bother overclocking it at all?
You sure? My laptop runs with a dual core i3 and my bottleneck is CPU. Even on my desktop where I have a Phenom II X4 black edition my bottleneck is CPU, though that's because of my graphics card being a 560ti.
Not everyone overclocks. The generic advice on this forum is "get a K series CPU and overclock it". Not everyone needs to overclock and waste electricity and generate excess heat and stress their components, even if they are designed to take it. Some people value stability, reliability and longevity over a few MHz extra. If your CPU being overclocked makes a 33% difference in frame rate, there's something wrong with your initial purchase. I've been building my own PC's for a decade, and using them for two. I've never needed to overclock for any reason. By the time my PC and it's CPU becomes outdated, the gain from overclocking is insignificant compared to a new microarchitecture. Sometimes, for specific applications, it's really beneficial to have a higher clock frequency. I wouldn't say a desktop CPU that's 3.8GHz out of the box necessitates overclocking to play any game, since most are GPU limited anyway. The whole clock speed myth kinda went away back when Netburst failed. I really don't get how that mentality of "oh I gotta overclock my CPU until the silicon melts!" persists. There are A LOT of places where you can design in extra performance to a system, no matter how big or small the system is, other than clock speed. Some people are happy to ignore IMPORTANT things like memory bus width, memory latency, amount of memory, cache size, MPI stuff like how many PCI-E lanes their CPU has, and what version, so they can buy a K series CPU and overclock it. How many people on here actually bother to get an LGA2011 CPU, which has 40 lanes of PCI-E compared to 16 on LGA1155 chips, but run multi GPU setups? It's just a different mentality that some people have for designing a system. Mine is that of someone building a high end workstation or server: make it balanced, reliable, make it stable, and make it last a long time. Buy the right parts initially, so I don't have to waste time and money re-buying things, upgrading or overclocking. Anyway, PS2 just runs like **** on pretty much any machine, so I'm not going to bother overclocking when what really needs to happen is SOE needs to fix their code.
this game is based on raw clocks, and laptop i5's are basicly higher clocked i3s. and you will always be cpu bottlenecked unless you decided to play with an overclocked i7-3770k and a gt 8200 at max settings. it doesnt really matter what CPU your using.
This is pretty much what my old laptop was running, relatively same specs but all intel versions. In big fights I'd get maybe 15 frames tops, biolabs were the worst though in which I'd sometimes drop to around 10-12 fps if there were squads in the area. However on the plus side I could reach upwards of 45 frames in most open areas on Esamir. It is a free game though, so their is no loss except for the unforgivably large download to get the game.
OK - seriously - you been building PCs for years and never overclocked and never used a water cooling setup>? You are right - not everyone overclocks their PC hardware - because most do not understand it nor do they understand how CPU's are made nor branded or sold! Right now your post is showing you to be in the do not under stand how CPU's are made or branded? Also the main reason why alot will by-pass the PCI-E lanes and other things you mentioned is out right cash - those things can mean the diff between a main board being 280 ~ 400 bucks alone vs 100. When it comes to overclocking - its about getting more for your money out right - and unless you have done the testing on your own - you can't claim that increases to FPS or performance over all means there is something wrong with the initial purchase. Just one way to point it out - using 3D mark I did some testing between my hd5850 ati card and the Nvidia card I have now - one of the tests 3Dmark does is physics calc - I thought this would be mainly GPU - but its mostly CPU - like the physics calc and code for PS2! (Not to be comfused with PhysX!) When I did the tests there was a differance - it was the clock speed of my CPU - when I did the first test with the ATI card the CPU was at 4.5ghz - when I did the Nvidia card it was at 3.8 - when I went back to the 4.5 stable clock - the score was well above the same system tests with the ATI card - but it was the CPU clock speed that changed and nothing else. SO... when you have a game that is coded with alot of physics and PhysX - and the physics is bound to the CPU - and you clock that CPU high - you will see a large increase in FPS! I saw it with my old 945 4 core as well! So please - don't go on about overclocking unless you understand it in detail.
Yeah, I haven't had an overclocked computer in ten years of building and twenty of using them. It's never been necessary. LOL I don't know how CPU's are made or branded? You mean the differences in microarchitecture or the CPU codes like K, U, S or P at the end of the number(for Intel)? What exactly don't I understand about photolithography? Please tell me how ignorant I am about CPU design some more. It's funny. Since we're on the topic of CPU trivia now: do you know what the fastest Intel CPU ever released is? I bet you don't. I'll give you a hint. The CPU's ID begins with an X, it doesn't end in one like most people probably think. Its factory clock speed was over 4.5GHz. Ever heard of it? Yeah, I know nothing though. I do try to get the most for my money outright. The most quality, reliability and longevity. That's why I have a Seasonic X650 Gold, a Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3H-B3, and an APC BackUPS XS1000. I also have a Samsung LED LCD with a very low Delta E. Do you know what Delta E is? See I can be a condescending ***** too. You just said that buying things that are actually huge performance boosters are essentially a waste of money... but spending money on water cooling(totally unnecessary on anything that sits on your desk, unless you require an especially silent computer) and CPU's with unlocked multipliers so you can have a higher clock speed is somehow not a waste of money. Makes sense. Ok, so you're saying that making the clock speed higher made your benchmark score higher. Really? There's so much you can teach me, clearly. I never would have figured that out on my own! You haven't given any details about overclocking... What details exactly are you talking about? Would you like to discuss CPU microarchitecture as it relates to clock speed? Power density as processes get smaller? Different cooling solutions? Heatsink metallurgy and design? Computational fluid dynamics? Finite element analysis? Additive layer manufacturing processes? You want to have a serious engineering discussion? I'm up for it. How about TCO, something you COMPLETELY IGNORED while talking about "getting the most for your money". You completely ignored something that important while talking about value. Wow.
my desktop: Intel i3 530, 12GB Ram, graphics ATI Radeon HD 5770; the cpu is the bottleneck so no flying at peak times and less than 20 fps in vehicle zergs. The graphics card is now 4 years old, but I can run the game on high settings expect for shadow- and flora quality. graphics is the limit at the warpgate with approx 60 fps. cpu is the limit in battle at approx 30 fps. lots of people here say intel processors run ps2 better than amd. i don't have any prove of this, just get a intel. 6 GB Ram are enough, except you run internet explorer, itunes and a video cutting software while playing... BUT: the crucial thing about laptops: overheat. i came back to desktops because my 2 laptops died from overheating. my advice: 1. google your desired laptop for overheating problems. if you find one guy, who got overheating problems with the model you want, than don't buy it. 2. get a cooling pad right from the beginning. at high temperatures simply spoken more and more transistors burn down. this leads to more leakage current, and this leakage is the source of heat in a pc. so if you buy a cooling pad when you already got heat problems, it might be too late: example: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...8&keywords=cooling pads&qid=1364972670&sr=8-2
Gotta go with Razzor in the off-topic argument between these two. Blackdove says hes hitting for longevity with back up powers and not overclocking, but those things are really only for servers. We are talking desktop gamer pc's here. Overclocking gives you much more bang for your buck and doesn't melt your silicons or whatever as you claim. By saying that you lost all your credibility for me whatsoever. Overclocking is a hobby that needs knowledge and patience, it doesn't make your comp live any longer or shorter if you do it right. The only downside being the increase in power consumption, but thats for everyone to decide themselves. Nowadays in every review they put a big pressure on the clockability of the component they're testing before they give their "grade" for that said component. That is for a reason too. Seems like Blackdove spends a lot of money on things that increases performance in some other way, but lets face it they just are not even comparable with a simple CPU/GPU overclocking in terms of increase in performance. You can tinker with loads of other things too to get minor improvements in performance, but those two are the major ones. If you deny that I don't know what drugs you're on anymore. @Blackdove: Man, you are arguing with things that makes no sense in the process of trying not to look ridiculous. For me atleast you fail and you do it hard. You seem to think that it's better to build your computers to last for 50 years instead of 5-10 years which is more than enough. The high end unlocked processors are unlocked for a reason. It's good to have opinions and defend them, but this is sad.
Funny, I have relatively close system to yours I-7 3770 (Locked) NZXT Phantom full Tower (upgrading to Cosmos II) Corsair 1k PSU 32 gig Ripjaw 2133 Ram 2x GTX 680 CUII Top editions (4 gig each) 3x Asus VE278Q Ratt Cyborg gaming Mouse MMO-7 Razer Ultimate cherry Blue KB Phoebus 7.1 RoG Sound-card (NEVER!! buy these) RoG Asus Maximus Formula Gamer Edition Motherboard SteelSeries Gamer H7 Headset 3x 2TB Seagate 7200 RPM 1x Corsair Force 3 SSD 120 gig 1x Corsair Nutron 240 gig SSD I get 90 frames if nothing is going on, 40-50 in big battles. Yet I dont OC, an have no need to OC. Any sensible person (if they can afford it) builds system so he doesn't need to OC, because stability, an longevity is far superior to OC in every way. Edit forgot to add. Maxed all details, PHYX enabled.
Guess you've never heard of hyperbole? The silicon melting thing is hyperbole. Look it up. Those things aren't only for servers only either. They're for the kind of computers that people do important things on, and require stability and reliability. It's pretty stupid NOT to have a UPS for your expensive "gaming" computer. Isn't it? Overclocking is fine to do, if it's done well. I never said don't overclock if you want to. I simply stated that people who constantly say things like "get a K series CPU and OC it!" might not realize that there are people with other priorities in the design of their system. I simply stated that not everyone overclocks, because not everyone cares about a few extra fps. Some people value other things more. Anyway, applications are being parallellized more and more. Look at CUDA or OpenCL. Single thread performance based on clock speed isn't everything. Then he comes and says I clearly don't know anything about overclocking, or CPU microarchitecture(or maybe he just means the product ID codes at the end, since he's actually the one who doesn't know a ring bus interconnect from his ***?) . Minor improvements? You mean things that actually matter more than clock speed, like memory bandwidth or which CPU microarchitecture you're using? Designing a balanced system, and then making sure it's optimized is much more effective and efficient than overclocking. The same is true of any high performance machine's design. Computers are no exception to those basic engineering principles. Here's the problem with what both of you guys are saying. You're both saying "most for your money", but ignore TCO and reliability. An overclocked PC is typically going to be MORE expensive than one which isn't, especially when you consider the fact that it constantly consumes more power. If you use cheap parts(who cares about all that reliabiltiy and quality stuff! It's for servers!) and you overclock, you might reduce the longevity of the parts to the point that they fail, before you get rid of it. Yeah, the half ***** mentality that a lot of people build their PC's with is pretty sad.
And you talk about reliability all the time. As I said in my post when OC'ing is done right it doesn't effect your comps lifetime or reliability at all. If you are an enthusiastic overclocker you never use cheap parts, but ones that are designed for it. This actually leads the overclocked computer to be more reliable than cheap comp with default settings. Even with cheap parts it's always safe to get a bit more performance out of your system, but the overclocking potential with these components is usually so low that you won't get far in terms of stability. And for the power consumption issue as I also said, is for everyone to decide on their own. Memory bandwith? This indeed has a very trivial effect in performance while gaming if you don't include the loading times in the actual performance which I do not. Tweaking DDR2's still had some effect, but DDR3's not so much. 1600MHz or 2133Mhz? Gamingwise doesn't matter. If running SuperPi or packing files with winrar faster means a lot to you or if you have a lot of similar usage then by all means go for the fastest possible, then it will actually do something that you'll notice. Programs and games are optimized differently and they work different on various platforms they are ran with, but they all get improved performance by overclocking. And still performance wise the most bang for buck components are the ones that are made for overclocking when they actually are overclocked. Power consumption wise, get a laptop. Nuff said. And UPS for a gaming rig. No. Just no. Maybe if your powerline sucks donkeynuts, just maybe.
Everyone uses their money as they like. Others want to get the most for their money and others are like you.
Yeah, I know that when its done right it doesn't affect reliability. I'm not against overclocking. I never said I was. I think we're agreeing here. It was the Razzor who was basically talking about getting more for your money with overclocking. The thing is, overclocking makes a computer MORE expensive, not cheaper, as you just said. The right parts are more expensive than standard parts. Things like water cooling, submersion cooling and other exotic solutions for overclocking are a lot more expensive than standard cooling solutions. You need more expensive parts to overclock properly. I'm not sure how many people realize how the power density of the new CPU's, especially the 22nm ones, creates a lot of hot spots the higher your clock rates get. That's something that seriously has to be considered, since it's not just saying "well it's running a little hotter overall" it's running extremely hot in specific regions. Vapor chambers definitely help with this problem. Definitely, design a system that's optimized for the applications you'll be running. You're basically saying what I said to begin with. However, the UPS is essential for me. I live in FL, and I'll never plug in a $2,000 piece of hardware into anything less than a really good UPS. Unless you're getting an on line UPS, they're relatively cheap, and they provide a lot of value for your money. Think about losing power in the middle of PS2, with your overclocked parts. Not only do you risk data corruption, but i's just a pain in the butt. How about if you live overvoltages or undervoltages? Those put unnecessary wear and tear on your PSU, which will potentially fail as a result. Even line noise stresses components out and some kind of good filtration is nice to have. Being cheap up front is not the way to have a low TCO or good reliability.
Others are like me, you mean people who spend alot of money, on quality gear so it lasts a long time, an don't need to play with it to get things to run all time, or don't run into compatibility issues because my system is not OC?... Yup, I am one of "those" people.
We both have valid points and perspectives. While parts designed for OC are indeed a bit more expensive they are usually more reliable and get longer support from their manufacturers via bios updates for several years. And as for things like watercooling I'm all the way with those eventho I've never owned one myself but I'm gonna tinker with one in my next rig. The good thing with these kind of parts is that they live from rig to rig due to various adapters and aftermarket parts for quite a long time so the money put in these things usually is anything but wasted. IB chips have their sweet spot too and I know their temps skyrocket after certain frequencies. But theres no reason for not going for that said sweet spot before that happens. With these said chips you can also do one important physical modification at your own risk that will give you lot cooler temps thus making it possible to push it farther with things like watercooling. OC'ing is not for everyone but for example if you compare the prices of 3770 and 3770k. You can get 20-25% more CPU performance with appropriate cooling from k. Now this might not be the most bang for your buck but it's the best solution for ppl that want the best performance that can be achieved at a reasonable price atm. And if you own an aftermarket cooler beforehand then theres no question. You can also go for 3570k and OC it to get a bit over 3770 level performance with less money invested and I think right now that processor is the most bang for buck in todays market and more then enough for gamers.
Mayhew Yeah and I don't disagree with what you said, except for the UPS part. Mostly because mine has saved my computer on many occasions. Anyone can have a power outage or undervoltage, and surge protectors don't protect against either of those potentially system destroying events. And if you're overclocking and adjusting core voltages, you would especially want to have absolutely stable, clean power going into your PSU, with as little line noise as possible. The main thing I was responding to was Razzor's assertion that I don't overclock or water cool because I don't know anything about it. In fact, I do, but I don't need or want it. I find exotic cooling solutions like liquid submerged blade servers, really interesting, vapor chambers, silent cooling solutions, sintered powder capillary wall heat pipes and all that stuff that Razzor says I don't know about, really interesting.
Its close - but I am losing out on the AMD fx6100 - hence why its clocked so much. you got SLI on 2 x gtx680's compared to my single 660ti Your ram is at 2133 - mines rated at 1333 but running at 1600mhz Your mobo is far better than mine as well. I built mine on low cost mainly to slowly compare the intel to the amd cup's in the end - but I am happy with it for the most part now. Not over clocked... its performance is pretty low compared to your specs. But also - when you think about it honestly - how long do you expect a PC to last? 2 years? 4? maybe 5? My last few PC's have lasted for about 3 years over clocked, before I wanted upgrades and those parts are still running fine in hand-me-down cases for my house mate and other friends - clocking is not a problem - heat as a by-product from overclocking is. That is why I have a watercooling setup - stock the CPU idle was about 45c anyway and when gaming got up to about 60c - those temps are the same if not lower clocked to 4.5ghz
