Shotguns: Perceived Power

People are making far too many threads about shotguns, and it seems like very few people actually understand why shotguns are so powerful.

In short, if you are losing to shotguns a lot, you are playing wrong.

Using a shotgun is about movement, baiting and mind games. Players who can do these things well, become very good with a shotgun and are likely the cause of these hate threads.

I am a big shotgun player, and i win because i outsmart my opponent, not because shotguns are good. The same way i win against them if i'm using any other gun... It's just that when you win with a shotgun, the margin you win by is usually larger, and faster (not taking any damage at all). This gives the illusion of the shotgun being overpowered.

For example, i see an opponent 30m away. I take a potshot at him to get his attention, then as soon as he spots me, i take cover behind a corner. I wait patiently, and then pop back around the corner. He has closed the distance for me, and i kill him near instantly. Baiting like this works exceedingly well in towers, but i also do it a lot with standard terrain. This is not some 'special case', i do this consistently every life.

If you let a shotgun user get within 10m of you, it's your fault, and you deserve to die. It's that simple. You need to work on your combat awareness; know where enemies could possibly be at all times.

One thing i will say, is that shotguns look near identical to carbines, so its very difficult to distinguish if your opponent is using a shotgun or not. As a result, its hard to make the right tactical decisions on how to attack an opponent. Quite simply though, if you don't know, don't go blindly running into CQC situations with a weapon that's not suited for it.

When i die to a shotgun player, i usually find myself smiling, because i got outplayed. It's like losing a good chess match, its still great fun.

Thanks for reading.

TLDR; You are super duper, everyone else sucks and should L2P.

Same argument as in EVERY other nerf discussion. Nothing new here.

You're an NC. You win with shotguns not due to mind games, but because you hit the MAX sprint button and give them a double shotty to the face.

Seriously though, it's not all about mind games. I'm playing my LA, I fly up, and behind the guy, he turns and I blast him before he can do anything. Brains plays a roll, yes. But having the biggest gun sure helps too.

Eh, I mostly agree with you, I only have a problem when I sneak up on a shotgun user from behind (and I don't know that he uses a shotgun since all the weapons look the same) with my T5 AMC or even T9 Carv and they just turn around and one shot me.

Perhaps a cheaper, weaker shotgun for around 500 SC for those of us who don't have a lot of money would be good?

Indeed. You're right, the success I've had with my auto and pump shotguns have a lot to do with the tactics I use in order to draw people into the range where I have the advantage. And likewise, when I get away from those tactics and let myself be drawn out into the open, I'm usually dead, rapidly.

My k/d shoots up from 2 to 4+ when I use a shotgun over other weapons and I don't do much special other than run around shooting people I see. But they do add a different element of tactics to the game.

That's funny. My experiences with shotguns have always been guarding a cap point with a few of my squadmates when some joker rushes through the room while taking some gunfire - the people who were looking in his initial entry direction - but he still kills everyone in a single pass.

I'm just saying that most of the complaints are because people get outplayed.

This has nothing to do with MAX, just shotguns for infantry.
I agree NC MAX needs to be toned down somehow.

You're partially right. However, players should be in a position where they can check their surroundings frequently for approaching enemies. As i said, its important to know where the enemy is could be, at all times. Most people just sit against fences on towers, and never look behind them.

Any gun can kill in about half a second. If you and your squad cannot kill one person, i'd suggest you change genre.

The first release of shotguns in beta played just like the pump-action ones play now. They were nerfed, for good reason.

The semi- and full-auto shotguns are decently balanced right now, but the pump-action ones simply went over the edge.

You play exactly the same way as I do. I play exclusively light assault, with the Nova shotgun (Vanu semi-auto shotgun, for which I think I now have 14,000 kills), so also add into your playstyle things like being chased, run around a corner - the moment you get around the corner, jetpack vertically up, and drop back down behind the target that was following you as he runs around the corner/shotgun him in the top of his head for a headshot.

Shotgun is all about getting in close. I watch people play with standard carbines, and they TEND to run in straight lines. Perhaps occasionally move to a bit of cover, but generally - stand out in the open, run in direct lines to their objective, and stand still when they want to shoot you. I have to get within 20 metres of everyone, and so it's CONSTANT darting side-to-side, use every bit of cover, bait people in, and get them to within your kill range.

The baiting works for C4 too though - I've often manage to "miss" dropping C4 ontop of a tank if it was moving away, so landed, taken a few pistol shots, and hidden behind cover - luring it to drive straight back over your C4 and detonate. That doesn't make C4 too powerful though

I started playing my VS this weekend (created it months ago).
Grabbed myself a Nova and got from level 1 to 30 using Nova and C4.
For some reason PS Players isn't updating my account, but i cant wait to see my XP/Min !
I got a quite a lot of 30+ kill streaks with no downtime between kills.

I use the jetpack move with steeps hills a lot. I will hide around the hill, then jetpack over and basically drop on their head as they come around.

Heres another great thing for bridges, like the one between Ti Alloys and Crown;
Fight on the edges of the bridge, and after you kill 1-2 people, just run off the bridge. They will almost never chase or even look. Hover under the bridge for a few seconds and reload, then fly back up and they'll already be looking the other way again, ready to die. I got a 67 streak doing this on the weekend. Ran out of ammo on my shotgun and pistol, and ended up knifing about 5 people too.

The shotgun definitely has changed my playstyle lately. I hate giving up my EM6/GaussSaw for a shotgun due to range limitations however it has pretty much become mandatory now with so many people using shotguns in and around buildings/towers (smart for them so have to adapt). If i am running with the Saw, i am very careful about entering buildings. Just another reason to carry conc/flash grenades when you can't keep some distance and have to enter a building.

It has definitely toned down the skill required to win a face to face fight, point shoot. But increased the skill involved with strategy somewhat. You position to use the shotgun you also position to outsmart them. (too bad there isn't an easier way to see guntype).

And don't expect a hacksaw nerf if you thing PAS OHK is fine. (hackmax takes 2 shots).
I have always been surprised they never removed shotguns from LA, much more scary than infiltrator with one.

Also be glad SOE gave everyone shotguns the NC TRAIT or the whines would be even greater Oh how i would love to see those tears

One of the things I like to do as LA is flank. Jet pack up onto a building, run across, drop down behind it, and use the door the enemy isn't currently spamming bullets through. It's amazing what a shotgun can do when you're just walking up behind the enemy and shooting them all in the back while they ignore the noise of buckshot hitting flesh like a bunch of oblivious lemmings.

The pump shotgun requires short range and good aim. It's not like the auto shotgun, where you can spray it around hoping to get a kill. Missing punishes you pretty badly given the low amount of ammo and long reload time. And past about 10m, the OHK isn't guaranteed. Outside, its effectiveness drops to nil pretty quickly. Even indoors, if you're caught across a big enough room, or running down the end of a corridor, a gun with longer range trumps it.

The pump shotguns strength lies in the ability of the LA to position himself. If he runs through a door that the entire enemy team is facing, the quickest TTK in the world isn't going to prevent him from getting a bunch of lead to the face before he can even pull the trigger. No, you jetpack up, come in from the side or behind, drop down on top of them and use your maneuverability to your advantage. I'd go so far as to say shotguns on other classes aren't as effective, given that you're limited in your movement options.

I absolutely agree, this is what I've been trying to tell people the past few days in various threads. I think the problem is the one-shot kill. Not that the one shot kill is actually a problem but when someone gets hit by one the first thing that goes through their head is 'that wasn't fair!' It's not an uncommon thing and it's the reason people hate snipers in other games. They feel they got cheated. However, what many shotgun users and indeed many players who have simply played FPS games for ages (especially in a competitive area) understand is the battle does not simply consist of the the time between the first shot on the kill, the battle is every movement you make. You have to play like you are expecting anything to be coming after you. If you want to charge around Rambo-style you can, hell, I do it sometimes, but in a game like this expect to die for it. See, that's the thing. I play shotgun because I love the playstyle associated with it. I have to get in close. I have to utilize cover and keep myself out of sight until I strike. If I don't I'm dead. What people need to understand is, when I'm playing like that and doing so successfully it doesn't matter what weapon I'm using, you'd be dead, shotguns simply fit that style more smoothly and (as the devs have said) it creates a high risk - high reward game. You can not get caught outside of 10 meters or so because if you are and the other guy can aim you are screwed. I think the only place pump-actions are too powerful right now is the forgiveness they have for log. With an ***ault rifle you need to land multiple shots and with low frames or with server lag that can be really painful. With a pump-action you only need to hit that one close-range shot. However, if that shot misses you should be dead if the other guy knows what he's doing. Whether people like it or not it really is balanced because the range really is that punishing.

Yes the shotgun takes so much skill it will make most peoples heads explode with the tactical advantages. I know the feeling when I take my shotgun be it infantry or my NC max and just watch at how people appear confused about how the gun appears to shoot a lot of bullets per trigger pull. Its hilarious when I just explain that it takes top tier skill to allow all those bullets to come out all at once with precious meticulous clicks of my mouse and watch their jaws drop.

Shotty user 4 life!

Shotguns are a noob weapon and suicide type weapon. Takes very little skill. They are on par with someone in a tank using HE.

Its simple, shotguns are avaliable for all, buy it or leave it! i have one, kill more than with my smg and thats it!

Stop crying dammit! everything new people come to the forums to cry! stop to play, go see your mom, go to the zoo or play another thing, just stop this ******** and lets play.

Most other guns can kill in half a second, if all their shots hit.
Pumpaction shotguns can kill in zero seconds, if 70% of the pellets hit. If they can't get the kill, they get a second try at a oneshot kill at the half a second mark. Semiauto and automatic shotguns have the non-headshot TTK at 0.25 seconds or so, with some leeway for missed pellets. This is at the borderline of human reaction times while pumpactions can't be reacted to at all. The base design makes it impossible to cover every angle, and even if you do you can still be outDPSed.

And that's the issue in a nutshell.

Shotguns aren't a skillless weapon however, but the skillset that benefits shotgun users also benefits every other weapon.