The Burster MAX Is TOO Effective

It's quite simple..

AA makes flying frustrating.
AA is present because otherwise air makes ground battles frustrating.

Someone has to lose, and I'd rather it not be me on the ground.

If an area is being denied by a single Burster and you have multiple air units. You are bad and should stop flying.

The problem with the A2G balance in this game is all down to the way air operates.

Air in it's current state is extremely effective against ground targets, not only from any particular weapons damage, but from the method of which air can stop&turn on a dime to engage those ground targets and hang around for as long as they are permitted should the targets be plentiful.

So AA *HAS* to be powerful to mitigate that sort of potential presence in a battle. There comes the problem however. You now have A2G balance having the air game existing in two extremes.
- If AA is present, large areas of the map become no fly zones creating a bad game for the air.
- If no AA is present, within minutes you have unstoppable flying death machines hovering above creating a bad game for the ground.

You can't nerf AA / buff air... you just push the extreme of the unstoppable flying death machine and in the same guise you can't buff AA / nerf air... you push the opposite extreme. Balancing via tweaks to AA damage or air survivability is just a complete dead end, it's always going to leave the game in the same position just flip flopping between those two states of play.

So I'd suggest that people stop attacking this from any one perspective, neither of those extremes is good for the game. What essentially needs to happen is air being shifted to having much more of a 'WW2' style of control... that is essentially summed up as: get rid of the ability to hover around for kills.

With air having to make strafing runs against ground targets with reasonable downtimes between as a result of having to come about and re-acquire your target you can then have a sufficiently powerful air to ground platform as there is no sustained damage that is the result of the hovering gunship approach. You have your nice high burst without laming any battle you turn up at that is unfortunate enough to not have any AA present.

Then when it comes to AA you can balance it down. Air will gain some survivability from just the style that fly-byes bring. But AA doesn't have to create complete no fly zones anymore as a counter to the hovering death machine problem. It can truly be the deterrent that extends the downtime for air that has to head off to repair, you can balance the air damage XP upwards to promote this further.

I think making the ESF handle like a fighter of old and creating a proper bomber would go a long way to provide better gameplay for both ground and air... could there still be a role for the gunship? yes but it would have to be extremely carefully balanced, most likely made of paper or shooting near blanks to stop the return of the current problem, but at least then you would have something optional that slots into the overall air roster that could be given a specific job on the battlefield.

Ultimately whatevs, give me new mini-hexes!

Do you even fly? That is a serious question. Because if you did, you would know that you spend more time flying back and repairing the 30-70% of health that gets taken away by single max units all day long.

For the record, I play AA max A LOT. I have dual bursters with extended mags in each and full flak armor. I can hold off multiple ESF's by myself, and usually do at least 50% damage of more to anyone of them I focus on. Half the time I kill them.

Flying away to repair is infinitely better for your K/D than trapped-in-the-open-die-like-a-fly for the infantryman.

At least the Skyguard isn't OP.

Coming from one that obviously isn't very good at flying looking at your profile, very nicely thrown, sir.

How about you stop hiding in those bio-labs and try getting some fresh air?

I am a full time pilot (about 300 hours in ESFS). Do not nerf AA. Instead they need to give some other class the ability to take out AA maxes when they are camped on rooftops.

If I can eat a tank in 2 seconds flat, then AA should be able to eat me in 5 seconds. All that is missing is some other class (likely infantry or tanks) having the ability to take out nested maxes.

The fun in this game is that everything has prey and everything has a predator. Do not ask for everything to be balanced out or you will get bland mush.

So do I. Stop pulling arguments out of your ***. If the ESF pilots are uncoordinated it's easy to clear them out. It's also easy to do that as infantry. Guy successfully defends a base against a small group, solo. Whatever faction he is, whatever weapons he was using, should be nerfed, Right? Because even though they were uncoordinated, they had the numbers, right? He must clearly be OP...

Did you even read my comments? I fly, but my piloting skills are poor, I use my Reaver as a transport or to kill 1-2 cowardtanks spaming our spawnroom and eject. But even with my poor piloting skills I manage to kill AA MAXes. Just flank AA MAX, aproach from a different direction and lolpod it to death.

Also, 'combined arms'. Try using Prowlers for combat, not for spawnroom spaming. Try inserting some heavies ans LA's who could take that MAX down. I understand that lots of TR players are almost helpless and just don't know what to do when they are not farming a spawnroom. Well, adapt and evolve.

Most of my playtime is in the mossy, armor, AA max, or engineer. I do know what I am talking about. You are correct, that to kill an esf usually requires catching one hovering. BUT, I can usually deal an average of 50% damage even on those who fly through at speed or do evasive maneuvers if I focus on them.

ESF's can only insta-kill tanks if they hit them in the rear, or if they are heavily damaged. Sunderers are notoriously difficult to kill. Rocket pods have been nerfed to hell against infantry, and if they are wearing flak armor, it is even more difficult.

Since launch, ESF's firepower and armor have been gutted, while simultaneously buffing AA. I think the balance is off slightly. That is my opinion of course.

How far up your *** did you have to reach to pull that one out? I'm rarely in bio-labs. And Yep! you got me. I'm a terrible pilot and use it mainly to get from A to B. I have, however seen what GOOD pilots are capable of when facing a MAX. And you apparently are not one of them.

You mean how MAX's can only kill an ESF from full to 0 is if they fly in a predictable pattern, or are hovering? Takes even longer if they have Composite.

How to fly air and give me free exp in the process.

1. Fly straight at enemy forces. You have the fastest and most agile vehicle in the game, so naturally it should have armor equivalent to a tank. It's not like you have to approach from creative angles or behind cover, or even do hit and runs. You've earned yourself some free farming for clicking that spawn button at the air terminal.

2. Hover spam in a single spot even while under fire. See number 1, you should have some tough armor, why should you have to worry about flak or 1HKO Dumbfire rockets and tank shells. Those infantry are clearly there for you to farm.

3. Your aircraft has a cooldown timer for a reason- it clearly means it should take 10-15 minutes to shoot you down while taking sustained fire. I mean why should you be penalized for recklessly using a vehicle that cost you resources? It's not like you should be expected to value and care for a vehicle that gives you a significant offensive advantage against most units. I mean the logical thing would be to give it a significant lack of direct defensive abilities due to its agility and offensive potential, that almost sounds like a fair tradeoff. And that's absurd; oh look more infantry to farm.


How you should fly air, order of dealing with any enemy presence.

1. Is there AA (ground or air units)?

2. If no to 1, skip to 5. If yes, is there more AA than you can take out on your own?

3. If no to 2, attempt to deal with the AA. Take caution and repair frequently, don't overextend. If successful, skip to 5. If there is too much AA, move on to 4.

4. You should probably go somewhere else, or return with a larger air-force, or attack as a ground unit. Deciding to engage anyway should be done knowing you will likely get killed, there is no justification for complaint. If you do move to a different area, repeat the previous steps until success.

5. Congratulations, enjoy farming the ground. If the enemy has not pulled any AA, they cannot expect to be safe from air attacks. If you have taken out the AA, then you can enjoy the fruits of your effort.



The smart pilot doesn't continue flying after taking hits from flak, he turns around and approaches from a different angle to determine the location of the flak, or abandons attempts to fly in that particular area outright. You can travel anywhere in the skybox as an aircraft, there is no reason to restrict yourselves to paths you would take as a ground unit.

No offense man. I like E911 and I am not trying to bash you, but you have almost no flying time at all in an esf. 14 hours. I have almost 100. I really think you should dedicate some time to flying the mossy before you lecture pilots about how good the balance is. And I mean that respectfully.

Furthermore, you have almost as much time playing as a max as I do in a mossy, so you may be a little biased here. I have almost as much time in my max suit as you do.

184 kills
0.08 kills/minute
29% accuracy
124,226 shots
3 headshots
35,983 hits count
396,580 total score
Double those numbers to account for the second burster, silly players site only lists one.
The amount of kills/minute does pretty clearly state that this is a deterrent weapon. The ratio of hits/kills is also telling, at 195 hits on average between kills, even though 30 are enough to kill a stock ESF.
Those stats are better than mine in kills, score etc, I only eke out a tiny bit more accuracy so don't take this as an attack on the stats or as an attempt to say Bursters are weak. But you do not kill ESFs half the time

Not true in the least. First off BM's have had multiple nerfs.

1. They slowed or rounds down - 4 patches ago which is why we can now see them actually being fired.
2. They decreased the range we can shoot - not only can we not hit Lib's at max ceiling, we can't shoot ESF's past a certain distance because our rounds despawn - two patches ago.
3. They increased flak armor on ESF's by 5%(per cert level) two patches ago.

Let me start this off by saying I, in no way, represent the opinions of any of the people in E911. With that said, I have already admitted to being a terrible pilot and have no interest in flying one extensively or have any interest in anything flight related. I do; however, take interest when someone tries to suggest that we are in some way OP.

Everything said here by you and that clown is entirely situational and can go either way in terms of MAX > ESF, ESF < MAX. Skill, coordination and awareness all have a part in this. An Aware MAX will most certainly always kill an unaware pilot that wants to farm with his pods, or a pilot that flies in a predictable path. A skilled Pilot, while albeit more difficult, can kill a MAX if he can catch him off-guard by surprise.

But they nerfed flak armor after launch. So while they may have buffed it a little, it still is less effective than what it was originally I believe.

Again, not true, they decreased damage output of all AA prior to the games release because during beta AAA like from a Skyguard fitted lightening was too affective.

Well here you go since you are looking. While it may not be "half the time" when I get kills from playing as a single AA max, I still get plenty of kills from it. And the damage I deal sends esf's off to repair smoking left and right.

https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428010917270172433/weapons

Burster 1
Kills=184
0.08 kills/minute
29% accuracy
124,226 shots
3 headshots
35,983 hits count
396,580 total score

Burster 2
Kills=156
.07 Kills/Min
29% accuracy
124,373 shots
7 headshots
35,951 hits count
394,360 total score