Need Dev Response to Compensator & Foregrip Please

I suppose now I am fretting over EXACT numbers....
When, quite frankly, they might not be needed in this case.

The guns are probably just balanced using that horizontal recoil, and thus they don't grant that weapon as much ability to remove it.

The game feels like its balanced around playing up your strengths, not negating your weaknesses.

I tend to use both the compensators and grips on my TR weapons. If the gun has very little horizontal recoil....ie shoot the wall and if the pattern is pretty tight left and right then the grip will have limited effect. The comp will help with any vertical recoil. It does not eliminate it in any way but it helps especially with sustained fire.

If all you do is close quarters stuff you will never notice what these things do. If you fight at range you should.

I doubt we will get real numbers.

SOE: "Well perhaps you should read our extremely vague description and come up with your own conclusion"

Despite the fact the description of many things they have is frankly incorrect.


SOE promised us hard numbers MONTHS ago. This job should be top priority.

First level of laser sight: reduces hip COF by 1/3 (33.3...% reduction). Take your current COF and multiply it by 2/3 (66.6...%).

Second level of laser sight: reduces hip COF by 50%. Take your current COF and multiply it by .5 (or divide by 2).

Compensator and Forward Grip I don't have numbers on.

Compensator seems to only reduce vertical recoil and by a very small amount - something like 10%.

Forward Grip reduces both horizontal and vertical recoil (you can easily test this by just firing a full magazine from the same reference point and seeing how "high" your character looks up) by an amount more significant than the compensator - seems closer to 20%. Please don't tell new players to buy Compensators for their Gauss SAW - tell them to get Forward Grips.

I believe they're considering adding in better numerical stats for weapons. I assume that this would apply to the attachments, too.

I also believe that the description on the fore-grips is incorrect, as it reduces both vertical and horizontal recoil.

The values for each attachment are specific to the weapon it's on (I believe, I don't think it's a standard % boost across all weapons, as some would obviously benefit more, and some less).

Sorry Innate, didn't read your response before.

Yeah, compensators reduce it by ~15%, foregrips go to something like 33% or so, for advanced. Can't recall specifics either.

I'd be really curious to know the information on the ammunitions, actually. How much velocity, etc.

YES. We need numerical values to what these attachments actually do stat-wise. I'll wait for a dev response before I change my mind that foregrip and compensator suck. Give me facts.

With the current TTK, it makes sense

Another question: Why do certain factions have better attachment options on their guns then others. Can only get a forward grip on my T9 Carv, but the SAW can get an advanced forward grip, high velocity bullets, and a compensator on their stock gun, with more scope options (like 2x reflex).

Where you guys getting this info from?

Compensator and Grip do absolutely nothing to affect recoil. However, the Compensator does make you appear on the map from further away. Go do wall tests for yourself or look on youtube. There's literally no difference based on everything I've seen, and if there is it's so small that it has a lower effect than experimental error. If you do a bunch of wall tests with and without compensator/grip, they're almost exactly the same. The only times I've seen people claim that they improve accuracy is due to the placebo effect where they claim it works, but in testing they can't replicate enough change to reach an objective conclusion.

Ironically, the same thing happened in Call of Duty Black Ops 2. Grip does nothing to affect accuracy no matter how much testing people do, but developers and a few players claim it does something.

So the Grip is a useless attachment and the Compensator is literally you paying 100 certs to appear on the map from further away.

The Grip makes a significant difference on assault rifles from my experience. (ESPECIALLY the Tar.)
Assault rifles have a much higher "recoil decrease" attribute then most other weapons (Albiet, this is shared with carbines,) and a lower base recoil in most cases then carbines.

These upgrades are useful on weapons that recover from recoil quickly, and don't necessarily have a lot to begin with, as it greatly reduces the margin by which recoil beats out recoil decrease.
Or, so I have theorized.

You can measure the laser COF differences in-game by simply taking screenshots of the targeting reticules with different levels of laser equipped and comparing the radii before/after with pixels. I've tested the laser sight on the Manticore, the HV-45 and the VX6-7 (I'm pretty sure it was this gun), and they were all consistent with the first level of laser chopping off 1/3 the radius and the second chopping off half the radius.

It's not as easy to make exact measurements of recoil since there's not an easy way to reliably measure angles. But you can tell that Compensators and Forward Grips both affect vertical recoil by getting a gun with a large magazine (i.e. an LMG), aiming at a level spot on the wall, and firing until the magazine is empty. Take note of roughly where your aim was at the last bullet fired (you don't need precise measurements because the differences are fairly large with e.g. 100 bullets). This works with both the Compensator and the Forward Grip.

It's harder to do a measurement of the effect of Forward Grips on horizontal recoil, but I am absolutely certain that the Forward Grip deadens the horizontal recoil significantly just from experience with practicing burst fire with the Gauss SAW and the Pulsar C. A lot of myths go around saying that Compensators do nothing, especially with semi-automatics, but, having used the Nyx (semi-auto scout rifle) with the Compensator and without, I can say it makes a noticeable difference.

With the Compensator and Forward Grip, I have no reliable way to measure hard numbers - the numbers I gave were akin to a guess at the amounts. I can say with certainty that an Advanced Forward Grip reduces vertical recoil significantly more than a Compensator does just from doing the "fire all bullets until you're empty" experiment.

I'm not saying the developers shouldn't release numbers, but for the time being we can glean practical information just from doing simple experiments like these.

That sounds incredibly accurate Bill Nye.

This is something we need.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but, if you are, it turns out to be incredibly accurate. Have a look at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189891&currentpage=144#2864 specifically, the section under PS2 Analysis --> Accuracy --> COF --> COF Measurement.

Measuring the targeting reticules in this way gives an exactly 2/3 (to the limit of floating point precision) relationship between the no laser and the first laser and 1/2 relationship between no laser and the second laser. The odds of either of those being random mistakes are pretty low, but the odds of both of them displaying such behavior and being a random mistake are ridiculously low. The evidence is strong enough that if some developer came on the forums and said the values I posted for the laser sights are wrong, I simply wouldn't believe them.

Has SOE confirmed all of this stuff to be 100% true? If not, the topic still remains.