Overlooked -- Mines are too easy to use

Out of all the things getting on the chopping block for being toned down, mines remain out of sight. This is unfortunate, considering the way they work currently in-game allows support classes to do a better job than the assault classes, and I'll explain the whys and hows.

First off, let's talk about how mines work. Currently mines work like Frisbees--you hold one in your hand, you toss it, and bingo, it's armed and ready to do some damage. And that's it. You have officially just set a powerful explosive on the ground. Let me repeat that--you just chucked an explosive on the ground (without setting it off) and it magically armed itself. If you're not seeing a problem with this then it might explain why the issue has been so hush-hush.

Secondly, let's talk about setting off a mine. Currently proximity mines work based on (you guessed it) proximity. Get to close to one? It goes off. In fact, even anti-tank mines work this way as well. You're free to drop off a couple next to an inert vehicle and presto destructo, no more vehicle. Maybe you're feeling a little more crafty and you'll just drop an AT mine on a point full of enemies and then shoot the mine or toss a grenade on it so you can "manually" set the explosion off from its intended purpose.

Now let me tell you why both of these functions are horribly wrong. For starters, mines are quite powerful. That's fine, they should be. What they shouldn't be, however, is the easiest weapon to utilize in the game. Mines have no learning curve--if you know how to press the left mouse button, you're an instant master. This is because mines require zero preparation to lay, so Jimmy the TR Engineer hocked up on speed and coke can become the most dangerous adversary on the battlefield simply because he knows his legs and arms are his greatest assets, as opposed to tactical awareness and patience (which is what mines are really supposed to be about).

Mines should require a person to be stationary to first lay down, and laying down a mine should take time (play a little animation of our valiant Engineers and Infiltrators kneeling down and setting the mine). This will solve a lot of the issues to mines currently, such as Infiltrators running through character models while cloaked in the middle of a cluster of lots of infantry only to uncloak, drop some banana peels, and then run away in a squealing glee as he rakes in the free lunch certs. Also, after the mine has been set, there should also be a grace period before it actually becomes "active," just so dropping a mine in the middle of combat no longer becomes a viable CQC tactic. Secondly, mines should no longer "asplode" based off of someone's interpretation of how explosions work in a Die Hard movie. Which is to say mines should not be "set off" by a secondary explosion or simply because you shot at it. Instead each mine's health is tied to the time until it is rendered inert and useless.

Lastly, and because I think it deserves its own paragraph for visual clarity, AT mines shouldn't explode based on proximity, but rather "pressure" (see: someone drives over it--no, Magriders still count). I think this one goes without saying. There are far too many Jihadist Engineers out there that are doing the Heavy Assault's job ten times better than he wished he ever could by exploiting this fact on deployed Sunderers. Currently you need to have Mine Guard if you expect your Sunderer to survive longer than thirty seconds after it's been deployed. All other defense slot cert lines are useless because of the way mines currently work in the game.

Now that we've got that out the way, I also want to bring up that, even if you disagree with all of the aforementioned, you cannot disagree that there is currently no way to combat mines (and please don't say flak armor or Mine Guard--those are ways to take less damage, not combat them). If you spot a mine before triggering it, good for you. Now what? You're forced to shoot it and intentionally set it off. This is completely contrary to actually safely disposing of any explosive. What if it's next to a terminal? What if it's next to a parked vehicle? And what happens when the only way you can dispose of it puts you in harm's way?

This is why I suggest one of the support classes that haven't seen much love (Infiltrator or Light Assault) should get a tool that allows you to deal with mines. What this tool does exactly is up to debate, but I'd like to say that it allows you to disarm mines. Or maybe it can work like the "heartbeat sensor" in Aliens, where you can detect mines. Just something to actually acknowledge the fact that you can actually do something about our sometimes invisible friends (I'm looking at all the lovely Infiltrators that like to place their mines "in" the stairs). Or maybe a tool that works like a recon dart that, when shot in an area, renders mines inert for a set amount of time (allowing people to manually take them out safely).

So to recap: mines should be more difficult to use and deploy and there should be some sort of tool to deal with them.

PS1 mines, PS1 spitfires, PS1 motion detector, PS1 cloaking AMS = No suicide bombers get through to AMS to kill it.

Loading a room with mines then using a gernade is not wrong, but actually pretty smart.

There's no way you needed that many words to say "nerf mines pls."

I have no problems with Infiltrators dropping AI mines right at my feet. They do that (and should be able to do that) because grenade physics is terrible thus that they can't be soft lobbed or dropped. This is perfectly fine and even can be considered something good for them to do by nature of their class: get right up into the enemy's comfort zone. All unexpended explosives can be destroyed by shooting at them. AT mines deployed right next to vehicles can not have their done for obvious reasons, but any vehicle that close to an AT is already dead, as is an enemy right next to an AI. Not being able to undo C4 in a non-explosive way might be a bit more problematic as C4 has to be triggered (or shot) to explode.

Mines need to be a bit more visible through either conventional means (no more mine falls through floor glitch), or through scopes (the current IRNV scope does a poor job of displaying active mines and it's the only thing really good at it at a range; vehicles otherwise have to drive right up to them and pray they remember how they bound their parking brake). I'd ask for mines to show up on Scout Radar but that only tracks moving objects and I don't think muddying another utility definition would be good.

Actually, making the Recon Dart detect mines sounds like a painless addition to its utility. A complementary escort vehicle with Proximity Radar to detect that suicidal Engineer that is beelining for your sunderer is currently the proactive defense to Mine Guard's turtling defense, and also does require that thing which will most frequently be the undoing of any decent one-man grandstanding - teamwork.

Proximity mines are fine, Bouncing Bettys are broken. If anything, invisible mines are too powerful.

I find OP's post very ironic based on his signature.

The OP is spot-on with his assessment of anti-vehicle and anti-infantry death frisbees. I would be embarrassed to have designed the mechanics of these mines. They need to be fixed and brought back in line with how they were used in PlanetSide 1.

Your sig is very ironic.

This is the real issue. It's about risk vs. reward. Currently, any tool can just charge around, leap on top of somebody, and throw a mine under his feet, then charge off and have a reasonable expectation of getting a kill (or 3).

It's an out of place mechanic, and it is awfully stupid to see a good number of infantry acting like suicide bombers in a big tower or biolab fight. They just run out into groups of enemies with a mine, drop it and die, and then rake in the kills. I can't help but feel that this is NOT the intended use of mines.

I also agree that tank mines should require pressure, but even if they dont, engineers will just throw a grenade to set them off. I know that the tank mine sundy bombing tactic was emergent, and not intended, but it is also awfully stupid in the context of how tank mines actually function.

I just dont think mines are being used like actual mines at all in this game, except very rarely. Even then, 2/3 of empire mines are essentially invisible with proper placement, and are just left behind to get a cheesy kill, and not actually defend anything.

FPS's really should be about fun for both parties. There is nothing fun, interesting, or engaging about walking over a mine that is inside of terrain, and instantly dying. I find it quite tiring and boring, actually.

I'm not sure how to fix it completely, but a placement animation and arming time would go a long ways to reducing the idiocy we are seeing now with jihadi mine users.

Unless it's a TR claymore, lulz.

The Terran Republic: Even Our Mines Are Worse Than Everyone Else's.

The AT mines actually work using magnetic fields, that's how the Magrider can set them off. Switching it to pressure would not work as I'm sure bugs would occur where they probably wouldn't trigger at all or they would detonate under a friendly vehicle.

Keep mines how they are, I use them AND get killed by them from the intended and unintended method of usage, just deal with it and move on.

Oh look, this thread AGAIN.

I'm hoping the OP is just being ironic with his sig.

FYI you can't move forward or to the side when dropping an AI mine. You can only move backward. Interrupt the animation by moving forward and to the side and the mine won't drop. Also, the lethal blast radius of AI mines is pretty small. Killing more than one person pretty much requires them to be standing on top of each other.

So anyone claiming an engineer is running through crowds dropping mines and getting massive kills is making things up. Or they were using C4 and not mines. But if a bunch of guys are standing on top of each other and let an engineer run up, or slowly walk backwards through them, pause, and drop a mine at their feet then they deserve to get killed.

If that's the case then the first mine that gets thrown down should explode the instant it is armed, causing a hazard for the suicide AT mine bombers.

I do the AT mine charge also, but that doesn't mean I don't think it is absolutely ********.

I have at mines I died over and over again trying to get to the enemy sunderer when I finally get there I drop my 2 at mines (all I certed for) I hear BOOM sunderer is still standing it has a mineguard. I die / it gets fixed

mines are not too easy to use

LOL CRYER BUY MINEGUARD FOR VEHICLES AND STOP OF CRY,,,MOMMY MOMMY.

MUCH TIEME OF I FAIL IN USE MINES FOR VEHICLES WITH MINEGUARD.....

YOU NEED THE MINEGUARD AND PROBLEM SOLVED STOP OF THIS THREADS.

Vanu forbid you place them on ferromagnetic material...

I do it, and enjoy it, and will continue to do it (or similar things with other explosives) unless and until the game is changed so that not every mouthbreathing baddie can pull a vehicle every 5 seconds to make up for his lack of skill at basic FPS gunplay. My sunderers do not get suicide bombed because I actively defend them with the full array of tools made available to me, and I'm not even particularly good at this game. The only vehicles that get *****-mined are the rock-stupid ones that sit in one place for extended periods of time with zero situational awareness. That that means "nearly every vehicle user in Planetside 2" is a flaw in the players, not the game.