THIS is why flinch is being changed this week.

I think the secret is making the player POV shift like usual, but keeping the players sights more or completely centered.

Not going to lie I absolutely hate that CS slow down running through glue when taking damage effect. If I get shot at I should be able to take cover or something instead of becoming a complete sitting duck.

I suggested that earlier "Without shifting player aim off targets." XD

Double fatalities stay so, standing still in the open gets you killed.

The disorientation would then encourage strafing, which would allow for flinching to be a valuable, and immersive mechanic without taking away player control.

It also cuts against it, by allowing multiple people to be able to cripple his fire and keep him from being able to reliably kill someone. The flinch mechanic is pretty neutral to the case of mover-advantage, IMO. The only effective way to address that problem is to directly target it, to increase the advantage that stationary shooters have over movers by doing something like amplifying movement penalties. They did a decent job of this by making moving COF and especially hipfire tend to be pretty horrid on most weapons, forcing people to slow down to be terribly combat effective. (The addition of the SMGs was something of a mistake for precisely this reason, IMO)

That's how pretty much everything else in PS2 functions. If the more numerous side actually has those guns trained at the right time and place and employ them with moderate competence, yeah, they should expect to have the edge in most circumstances. If there's four dudes trained on a doorway, you shouldn't be able to win through attrition just by repeatedly flinging yourself at them willy-nilly, confident that you can always kill one before they take you down.

Scourge, good video but that door part is lol.

Prior to this forum outcry i never really noticed flinch all that much. From reading all these threads my standard setup across chars should yield tons of flinch but i was to busy playing.
Habitual ADS'er
TMG-50, 4x TMS, comp + forward grip, 1k+ kills.
NC6 Gauss Saw, 4x TrueShot, comp + Adv forward grip, 600+ kill (newish char).
Orion, V3 Halo 3.4x, forward grip 400 kills (fresh char) .

With the above setups i run, i should be on the forums crying for a fix. Thing is i dont feel this mechanic deserves all this hoopla. Except when it comes to the randomness of the flinch mechanic.

I hope whatever change SOE decides on they take out or reduce the randomness of the flinch mechanic.
If you want this game to be taken seriously for competition reasons take out or reduce the randomness of the movement on the xhair when getting shot.

Also look forward to the next thing that becomes the next big forum whine.

I was kinda iffy about the threads against flinching, but this is very detailed. It should be toned down, though I still think it should be present to a certain extent.

Agreed. Though I think its fun to have my screen shake. Xd

Explosions affecting screenshake need tuning... they impact too large of a radius... and the degree of impact should be less away from the center.

Flinch might need a tab bit of tuning down... but just a bit. Weapons can be balanced taking into account flinch... it doesn't appear that has been a consideration. Slight NC damage increase would take care of it and not change the scheme of the empires.

I like how at the start of the video, it shows Higby, an NC biased dev, asking people what they want nerfed (as if asking people on Twitter is a good way to balance a game) and he gets a response from someone with an NC logo in their picture saying flinch should be nerfed and then this thread is started by someone with an NC avatar and the video is made by one of the top NC kill farming monkies.

I sincerely hope all you NC players realize that your weapons will be the best weapons in the game if you nerf flinch. Nobody will be able to compete with your damage. If they change flinch mechanics, NC range, accuracy and rate of fire will need to take a nerf to compensate for balance. SOE will need to be extremely careful in how they handle the changes to flinching, we really don't want a situation where the 200 damage per shot Gauss SAW has no counter.

That said I realize the current flinching system is probably too much and that it hurts NC's slower guns the most, while benefiting TR the most, with VS kind of in the middle. I just do not want a situation where NC becomes grossly overpowered, it's already an extremely popular faction, the last thing this game needs is more NC right now, especially if it's going to be a situation where you're landing heavy hitting shots on people without a downside.

I fear these changes because they could either be very balanced or they could make NC ridiculously overpowered. SOE does not have the best track record with nerfs/buffs.

Stop being so slow and you might not hate easy games.

What's stated in the video is what I've know and said before, but of course most players don't get it even with a video carefully explaining the negatives of the current mechanic.

It just makes the gunplay utterly frustrating at times, that's why when the developers say they want this to be a competitive game I just laugh because nobody takes them seriously when the game has mechanics like this, the screen shake and other problems.

Randomness like that makes for a frustrating and unrewarding experience.

We should start up a thread on how to make flinching better (even if you think its ok,) it would be more productive then debating some of the effects of flinching, or debating as to how to make it better in a thread not about making flinching better, but instead the need for a change to flinching.

You're taking bullets to the face, and you're expecting to keep firing uninterrupted while it happened?

It's there for a very small realism factor, and should stay there otherwise the only way to stay competitive is to use aimbots like everyone else will be doing, as aiming for headshots would become way too easy, and the "time to kill" would be even faster.

Does it need to be normalized however, and feel less random? Certainly, and that is exactly what the developers are doing. But removing it would just be silly and further dumb down the game's infantry combat. Making it like that short CS part of the video, would not be my idea of a good change.

Long post, but you're not fooling anyone. Your argument has no substance, you seek only to preserve your advantage. Good players will still win out. Those that use the lower rof weapons on vanu and tr will still get kills easily, just like NC players do now. It's only bad players, relying on crutches- content to relish in a cheesy advantage instead of improving themselves- that fear the competitive environment. "Faction Balance," such a painfully irrelevant consideration, such a silly buzz word. TTK is virtually identical between weapons, the smallest fractions of a second differentiating them. The player that aims better will win the fight. Or at least, that's how it should be. A "Flinch" corrupts this pillar of FPS gaming, lowering the skill gap.

You fear your crutch will be removed, and it's understandable. You'll learn to adapt, hopefully.

I feel that being shot should be disorienting, but not throw off your aim as is.
Partially because I romanticize double fatalities.
Partially because disorientation would encourage strafing, and the standing still and shooting your enemy not saving you from getting shot will make strafing more important, adding another layer of skill to the game.

Exactly. It promotes skill-based, competitive gameplay. Flinch is a casual mechanic.

Every 2nd player already seems to be Heavy Assault, especially NC. This will make them even harder to kill, no? they're already top dog CQC besides hackmax...

Flinch can be made to enhance strafing, and competitive gaming strategies with a few tweaks.

It needs to be made more predictable, and it needs to be more drastic depending on the stopping power of the bullet.

No, you shouldn't. Tagging in CS punishes people for not being aware of their surroundings and forces them to engage in gunfights instead of trying to run at the first sign of a challenge. Besides good players won't even tag you, they will headshot you faster than you can say "I wish this was CoD!".