Why would you choose an infiltrator over any other class when assaulting a base in a group? There is no reason to. Sneaking behind enemies is temporary, you can't single handedly take on a force of defenders or attackers. You have no real role in large battles, because every other class does what you can do but better. Your only option is to be the best at CQC to allow you to impact a battle the way a squad of heavies or medics cans. A squad of infiltrators is going to be a minor annoyance at best. Your name even suggests you should be sneaky and deadly. At the moment you're neither. Give the infiltrator a pump shotgun, make him fantastic at CQC, make them useful in large battles. As someone who plays infiltrator that has to sound like a good idea to you. Infiltrators should be a front line, "we're the first to go in" type of class.
This is something I agree with wholeheartedly - I hope I didn't give the impression otherwise. I would prefer that situation to what we have now. I think PS1 style stalker-cloaking caters equally to people who want to ambush by providing them an effective means to get into a favorable position, people who would prefer to focus more on hacking objectives by giving them an effective away around groups of combatants, and people who want to do a mix of both. However, all of the requisite changes would have to be made simultaneously. Taking our SMGs without giving us adequate cloaking would be bad, just as giving us stalker-style cloaking while still maintaining access to powerful SMGs. I would hope that there could be a middle ground that satisfied everyone's play styles (stalker-style implemented but current-style still available), but I know that this isn't always possible. The idea is that you would take an Infiltrator because of his utility, same as you would a Medic or Engineer. Granted the Infiltrator's utility is very small at the moment, but with some improvement (hopefully coming soon) they would be viable in group play. Granting them shotguns would in no way increase their group ability. Also, since this is a team-based game I don't think Infiltrator's should have the ability to "single handedly take on a force of defenders or attackers." It should be a group effort.
I worded that poorly I will admit. No one should be able to rambo through an entire team. However some classes should have roles that they are the best at. Giving infiltrators shotguns will allow them to fill a role they should be filling, deadliest at close range. I can't see how else you can make them a viable class in a group.
I completely agree, those who did not participate in the beta don't know what infiltrator was like before shotguns. We had the same hp and shields as every other class, cloak delay was much shorter and cloak visibility was "different". I can't say for certain that these were directly caused by the blow back from invisibility+shotguns but there was definitely a difference in the class before and after. It seems like they nerfed the class to combat the power of the shotgun and the final nerf was to remove it and not revert the other changes. The last thing I want to see is the class being balanced around a weapon and not the other way around. Shotguns were too crazy I play NC so I didn't even get to use a full auto shotty or one with higher ammo capacity. With the addition of SMG's (Cyclone specifically) I am finally satisfied with the state of the class. There are some important changes and minor annoyances but it's back to the class I want to play most. oh and thanks for the plug
Okay that's fair, I was hoping you had worded it poorly but you can never tell sometimes. Giving the Infiltrator a lot more things to hack will make them a viable team player in my opinion. Vehicles, broken turrets, vehicle supply towers/pads, jump pads, teleporters, spawn beacons, shields, doors (add them?), windows, etc. Something that would make them an asset to a team aside from killing power. Medics & Engineers aren't the deadliest at any range, but still are taken with groups due to utility - this is what I think should happen with Infiltrators. Not more combat ability. I know it might seem like a lot, but you never run out of people to heal/revive or supply with ammo as a Medic or Engineer... Infiltrator's need some things to not only make us useful, but keep us busy as well. You keep making quality videos, and I'll keep telling people to watch them.
I beg the differ. I have lost count of how many large entrenchments that i have cleared out completely undetected by simply killing everyone inside it in less than a minute.
Shotgun was nerfed then removed from infiltrator because of blind idiots incapable to notice a cloaked infiltrator. And that's when infiltrator stopped being infiltrator. Current SMGs are worse for CQC then stock sniper rifle, not mentioning that said rifle is effective at all ranges and have much more ammo stored. It's impossible to play with a current SMG without ammunition belt. Running out of ammo will be #1 reason of death for any remotely good player.
I don't think anything you said there was true. Literally every sentence is a falsehood typed in an over dramatic fashion. Part of me feels like I have some sort of responsibility to explain why all of that is wrong, but I hope that the majority of the people on this board are informed enough to know the reasons already.
The problem with infiltrator, and even Light assault, is that current base design does not necessitate their existence like it should. There's no wall that doesn't have a bunch of holes in it, no objectives that have stealth as an actual option, and no base that cloaking or LA's verticality are nothing more than a convenience. Bases need a major redesign with more objectives for these classes and small organized groups to take advantage of. Right now, the ability to zerg in with a large force is all that matters. No room for small outfits to carve out a niche or the current bastard classes to make a real difference. Barring that, they could do with at least greatly lowering the uncloaking sound, at the least. The SMG is an -excellent- weapon. The closest thing you'll get to a carbine without actually being a carbine, which has been asked for by infiltrators for ages. That and possible replacing the tool with a temp radar jammer or some type of way to disable NV scopes for a short time. So, you're saying the SMG is crap. Then you say that the only way a decent player dies with one is running out of ammo. If you live long enough with a weapon to run out of ammo and for that to be your main complaint with a weapon, you're either getting at least one kill per clip or you're not a good shot and wasting enough ammo for the other person to kill you. Well, there is the third option of you trying to use a hip-fire to kill heavies at the edge of mid-range as well. If it's the latter, then good news. You're likely using the variant with 25 rounds, meaning you can extend it's clip to 35. That gives you more damage per clip than most carbines. Assuming you're using the cloak to get in close and get the drop on someone, getting one headshot before they are able to respond usually wins your fights before they even really start! If you're complaining about the second variant though, then I'm at a loss. That thing ***** face when you take advantage of any sort of surprise, even stock.
........ A squad of Infils with SMGs can create enough havok to facilitate a major push by others. They way I see it, and the way I play, is that Infils are meant to bring the fight to the enemy wherever they may be; be it by range or by stealth. I gladly throw away my life to allow others to tranverse an open field in relative comfort, because Im there shooting up the enemy covers that approach. I'm there to create confusion, disrupt the enemy and score some cheap kills. 3 grenades (wi the certed suit slot) and 2 bouncing betties can create some big messes. If you give me a shotgun 3 things will happen; - I wont be quiet anymore (so its bombs first then the gun) - People will be headshotted by my slug shotgun alot - There will be many many tears form the VS and TR on Briggs..... What I would rather is more options for the pistol such as a hand held 2 shot shotgun or longer range melee weapon such as a sword or similar and perhaps a different, more offensive item for the utility slot to replace the recon device.
That's correct. You can kill with any weapon, even the knife. But if you take SMG you can't allow yourself to go to straight gunfights like you could with HA's LMG for an example. So you will still kill people, flanking, from the back, whatever, it's what makes the infiltrator, but sooner or later (usually it's sooner), you'll run out of ammo, and then you'll die. Simply because said Eridani is 25/75 by default if I'm not mistaken with 2 kills in 1 clip max which is 8 kills maximum, while stock sniper rifle gives you 10/50 if I remember right, which is 30 kills with headshots or ~15-20 with bodyshots (depent's on your victims' nanoweave). So the fact that good player will die to low ammo don't advocate the sh1tness of an SMG. Well, even pistol shines when you perform surprise attacks, however infiltrator is very easy to see. Cloaking shouldn't be taken into account if we're discussing weapons. And yes, I was using Eridani, with extended mag, reflex sight and supressor/compensator depending on the situation. Sirius (the 50 round SMG) may seem more powerful, but is actually more or less the same. It has increased fire rate with lower damage per bullet, so TTK is about the same, the only advantage of Sirius is that it has 50 bullets stock (allowing you to kill more then one enemy per clip reliably), so you can take laser sight further increasing it's mad hipfire. And I must notice here that good hipfire gives you little if any advantage, because you can hit just as well with aiming down sights, while your average "running" speed is not much more then your speed while aiming, so moderate players will hit you just as well. So, it's possible to kill with an SMG, but it's still probably the worst weapon (apart from scout rifles). Bigger TTK, lower clip size and ammo, lower bullet speed, more or less the same recoil, etc.
NO Not only was it a STUPID situation when it was allowed in beta, one day the infiltrator will actually have decent stealth, and then it will be even worse. NO and a thousand more times NO.
I played shotfiltrator a decent bit near the end of beta... it is totally not the same thing, it's not even in the same ballpark. It was fun as hell, and it was absurdly OP. So yeah, NO.
Except turn defense turrets to your side, hack terminals so people can get specialized weapons or MAX suits, and hack vehicle terminals to spawn vehicles, or snipe at people from behind their own lines where you can see them behind the cover their using to fight your team. I'm not a fan of the way they did the infiltrator class, but being delusional is not really a good way to sway people who disagree with you.
The SMG is pretty much OP as it is - why do you need a shotgun? I see a lot of other classes using SMGs instead of their default, which tells you something....
no hell no why do you want the shotgun anyway?,the smg is insanely good for close quarters the infiltrator problem relies in his cloak and in his lack of things to do besides killing stuff but absolutely not into his weapons
I have no issue with infiltrator getting the 2 shot kill shotguns back. but not a PAS. Unless they take the shotguns away from LA who are way way more deadly with them. But tower is one of the few places an LA with shotgun is brutal. And since everyone, well a huge number of people now carry shotguns in any type of CQC area the infiltrator will still be dead before they decloak(noise) and shoot. One of the many reasons the infiltrator shotgun was so deadly in beta was you could fire it before you decloaked. Sometimes it didn't register first shot, but with the auto shotgun like that mattered with 2 to the head. Even when that was fixed, lag delay still made it appear to be shot before decloak with a short decloak timer. I solo'd more than 1 max with shotgun,cloak,shotgun,cloak circling them. There was also the issue that anyone running in low graphics could not see infiltrators at all (which was a lot of people) Now low graphics makes infiltrators stand out more so that is solved too. Hell i don't go infiltrator unless i need to kill enemy snipers or am begged to, to hack terminals anymore
