When can we see the prowler against infantry statistics?

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest

This is vanguard HEAT damage, though I'm not sure of the infantrys health before I opened fire.

HEAT damage and radius per shell is identical across all 3 factions. HE damage for Vanguard is wonky due to slow reload speed and splash radius.

Lets see the ScatMAX stats vs infantry. Then they can nerf the Prowler right after they nerf the Scatmax.

Funny thing, I'm willing to bet infantry fair better vs the Prowler than the scatmax.

The Prowlers damage buff was to DIRECT damage, which always killed in one shot, so it didn't increase infantry farming capability.

The anchored mode ALWAYS reduced load time.

Higher velocity means you have to aim a little lower. When I farm, most of the time I do not anchor, as I want the ability to move, and when farming inf the added speed really isn't needed.

totally false, it takes a direct hit to kill. If they are insta gibbed that means they were either direct hit, or took splash from multiple tanks. defenders have every chance to fight back, including spawing at another base and attacking from the rear of the attackers.

Really if Prowlers are as strong as folks are making out, TR would own the world, they don't. They are an effective infantry killing machine in the right circumstances and right terrain. Tanks are effective on maybe 25% of the combined maps?

See how it is when the WG's shift again Prowlers + Indar canyon corner, I can see the burning wrecks already, I will be one of em!

Last night, I failed to put down plenty of infantry with 2x splash shots that were fired in .5 seconds. Try the Prowler before screaming for a nerf on something you know little about.

Oh, in what kind of world are you livin'? Thanks to TR \ NC crybabies Mag is not best at anything... Actually it's baerly worth of using. Mainly becouse even after buffing other MBTs, their drivers are still... well, let's kindly call them "lacking the idea of how to play". So you can kill one or two before you face dude who understands and utilize concept of moving between shots or keeping front armor facing Mag...


The whole trick is that you will now have to taste your own medicine and it will be "Nerf the Prowler" campaign now. It's karma, deal with it.

Nuff said.

Hey look actual numbers! Now we can stop speculating and and discuss the actual facts. I like facts.

So (and this surprised me) it seems that Mag and prowler are pretty well balanced. Both in MBT vs MBT and in score per hour. I guess if you are really looking for something you can say prowler has a slightly higher MBT vs. MBT score.

The Vanguard is balanced MBT vs MBT. But is significantly (about 20% lower) doing less score per hour than the other two tanks. I can only suspect that this is due to its slow fire rate. However this is a difficult one to balance because you don't want any change (like higher fire rate) to affect the MBT vs MBT balance.

It is likely due to the slow RoF, and the tank not being able to get into positions as well as the Magrider (since last week Magrider stats are not significantly lower).

Is the blast radius of the Vanguard HEAT smaller too? I saw someone say it was only 8m on the Vanguard and 10m for the others when if it had a lower ROF it should have a larger blast area to make up for that.

The way you say it, makes it sound like Prowlers couldn't kill Magriders before they were nerfed.

After reading more of this thread I especially like TRs approach and argument selection... So, TRs argument that Mags should keep distance to make better use of Saron is valid, yet VSes argument about Prowlers cutting the distance (in Mag's pre nerf threads) to make better use of their advanatges was invalid xD

So, in other words, pot calling the kettle black? If people had no issues with telling TR to play to its advantages, then there shouldn't be any issues with the opposite happening.

I agree that the prowler is the easiest against infantry. But the magrider was also a close second in my mind in that regard. The maneuverability of the magrider makes it near impossible for infantry to hit them from a distance. Even with Annihilators and what not, it's not hard to duck behind a rock before being locked onto and hit because of magburner. I do need to play a magrider post nerf through, which I plan on doing this week. My opinion on this could change.

That being said, the prowler is showing up better on stats against tanks, but SOE really needs to let time play out. There are a few reasons for this. The biggest mistake any game developer can make is to change things too quickly. They let the magrider go untouched for nearly 4 months, which was the right decision. Now the prowler is doing better, but they need to let it go for a while in order to get a good idea of how to nerf it by analyzing data and letting the numbers balance out. I believe as time passes the prowler gradually become more and more biased calling for a bigger nerf. If they nerf it now based on current stats they could potentially not nerf it enough. Vanu players also have to get used to playing their tanks differently now, which as they get used to could begin to balance things out. Nerfing the prowler immediately as vanu players want could again make it far weaker in months to come. SOE really needs to let time play out and for players to begin adjusting their gameplay before making changes. Making changes too quickly can make balancing even harder as player styles change with the changes made. Making changes too quickly as players change their style can quickly go out of control as the player base as a whole will never immediately change their play style. Small changes can end up cause even more problems than good. Taking time allows for the playerbase to adjust and then gives the devs the ability to make a couple tweaks or big changes with much more accurate data.

For the time being, as much as it sucks to say it, deal with it. TR and NC dealt with magriders on top of mountains they couldn't even point their turrets at if they were too close for nearly 4 months. If anything I wouldn't be surprised if the vanguard is changed a bit before the prowler is nerfed.

As a vanguard driver, I **** TR tanks as they mostly are little *******. Few good prowler drivers are out. The buff was needed, but overdone (Must reduce HEAT damage buff from 25% to 15% and AP damage from 20% to 10%) and their infantry killing capabilities must be reduced in order to compensante for the double shot, reducing damage from 1000 indirect damage to 700, making it need to hit DOWN shots to kill an infantry (food for though - 150mm HE shells are dealing the same damage as 120mm shells).

Doing this will make the prowler the tank it needs to be, and not the monster against infantry that it is now, while being much stronger then the magrider.

But man... ITS A ******* TANK! Infantry VS Tanks = Lot of deads... cause ITS A ******* TANK!

2 cannons are the prowlers advantage and it's not gonna be change... deal with it and dont try to be a Rambo in the middle of a Zerg.

Vs already has the best infantry guns in the game. What about a nerf in the VS guns too?

This is probably the best option however I personally think they need to also increase the reload time of the prowler it's way to fast for a tank that uses double barrels and is in the "heavy" section.

Vs guns aren't strong.. the tr weapons hit the hardest you guys just have a lot of recoil.

I'd like to point out that round diameter does not equate to lethality, either in real life or the game. The Lightning 105mm rounds do more than a single equivalent 120mm round for a Prowler, for example.

The 14" guns of the Pennsylvania-class battleships were significantly weaker than the 12" guns of the Alaska-class due to how the rounds were created.

Edit - Misjudged calibers. Alaska class 12" guns were significantly more beneficial due to higher angle of attack, striking at up to 45 degrees onto less protected deck armor, as opposed to belt-striking 14" 30 degree shells

The stats don't bare it out.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=12

NC - 4162
TR - 5194
VS - 5176

The Mags score per hour is just like the Prowlers, it's the Van that needs a little boost, like AI help.

It doesn't matter. Lower Caliber guns carry less damaging charges. Considering you are running a gunpowder-based cannon (and not a railgun design like the Vanguard), your damage should be lower, since half the powder on it is for propulsion only. Specially in balancing matter. You can't have the most damaging tank against infantry and tanks now without a drawback (which the dual fire isn't since the reload is significantly lower compared to the other two).