Anti disinformation thread

You smell like Milk!

Interesting thread, very poorly presented though. You really should clean up the OP.

Also, Magriders have been up on Scarred Mesa since release. Granted right now they can't even go up a hill, but pre-patch Magriders have been able to be on top of every base type in the game in certain locations, with the exception of Tech Plants. However, it's usually useless to be in those positions and most of the time the Magrider is plummeting to his death attempting to get to those locations.

as i've said before. i can't. the forum software does not let you edit posts after 30 minutes have passed.


and just so this post isn't a total waste.
ESF data!

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/esf-deceleration-comparison.72077/
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/esf-acceleration-comparison.71831/
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/esf-actual-sizes-from-game-assets.68595/
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...reaver-ab-changes-an-unexpected-change.78781/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AojH4quZ825QdFMwNWNEdi0wVlNUalNnSjZyRHhKeGc#gid=0

./facepalm
you realize that in RadarX's native land that is literally the WORST POSSIBLE THING you can insult someone with?
men have been drawn and quartered over lesser slights!

Fact TR and Vanu have higher recoil per second on most guns then NC.

Fact Starting LMG for Vanu has the same recoil as the starting LMG for TR but a higher first shot recoil multiplier.

Fact Vanu weapons in general have higher first shot recoil then TR weapons.

Fact Most TR and NC complaints about Vanu recoil is baseless. Past the Solstice which is a bad gun for different reasons anyway none of the VS weapons are significantly lower and those that are make up for it with higher first shot values.

Thought: If you have not figured out how to compensate for recoil with a mouse you are a horrible horrible player.

I like what you're doing, but your format is ambiguous. I've read the OP twice and still can't work out which points you're supporting and which are being debunked. How about something like...

1. "Vanu only come out at night."
TRUE: they are all vampires and nobody has seen a single one during the daytime. Ever. Honest.

2. "Elmos are cute."
FALSE: they carry guns and wear goggles. Elmo cuteness is a Terran conspiracy designed to cause hesitation in enemy response.

Edit: I forgot about the edit lockout preventing you from updating. That's a shame.

More often than people engage at ranges where vanu damage drop off lowers their damage below parity....

The Reaver doesn't have more armor than other ESF.

Philosophical sidebar; this becomes much less of an issue when you recognise that "humanity" is a meaningless subjective construct which changes from person to person, nation to nation, and era to era. The qualities which make up the construct of "humanity" in the democratic, developed world are substantially different from those considered inherent to it in some other parts of the planet, and are drastically different than what were considered vital to it in the past.

Look at it this way; if we met an advanced alien race, would you considered them inherently "lesser" than us because they, by definition, are incapable of possessing "humanity"? Conscious, sentient intelligence is the only meaningful measure of a living creature, and I would argue then that any enhancement(a thing which by definition is better than that which it replaces/supplements) which leaves those qualities intact is worth pursuing.

Just so you know I was getting 30-40+ FPS before the patch and still do outside of large base combat, however since the patch combat in places like the Biolab or AMP Station = 10-20 FPS for me which is why I avoid them like the plague. Regardless even if you just compare the raw stats of the weapons the NC still under performs across the board, largest COF and Recoil, lowest ROF, all of which is supposed to be made up with slightly better damage 167 compared to 143 (200 in the X11's case), and slightly better starting stationary ADS COF, .03 compaired to .1. Neither of which really make up for the fact that most combat happens within 10m due to control points being within buildings or at the center of small bases.

Additionally, seniority means nothing without a verifiable rapport, hence why employers ask for references, and without a rapport with their references one has to rely on the assumption that as the person's former employer they will tell the truth about this person. So when you rely on assumptions you rely on faith, and while I certainly do agree with the saying in regards to religion, faith in itself is the very foundation of human society. So how about you take your hat off too and sit down like reasonable human beings or whatever you might be. Don't want to make assumptions now do we?

Snarkiness and jokes aside I have so far determined that there's no reason not to trust Sharpe's opinion, and yes your knowledge of Firefly certainly gave a shiny impression but wasn't the deciding factor. Now I agree flat out reliance on the sheet can lead one astray, especially if one doesn't have a reference point to begin with, but as a widely accepted reference sheet, it is hard to dispute it when speaking about numerics.

The headshot bonus for landing those bullets doesn't hurt either, nor does the larger clip size. You are using the GU2 spreadhseet right? The NC may have several sub-par weapons, but you've also got decent weapons in the mix as well. Same as any other empire. I run into a ton of NC that have some brutally pinpoint accuracy in single fire to the head. I die just as easily to your guns as I do to the TR's. Your weapons kill and they do it well. I'd take your Medic's Gauss Rifle if I could. The GD-7F is almost a clone of the VX6-7 save for the silly flinching. The only problem with your infantry is the flinch mechanic, which I agree needs to be removed or altered in some way.

Actually, by mentioning the assume thing, i was referring to the quote, "It makes an *** out of U and ME." I wasn't trying to go all philosophical on you.

Is firefly the forum software? Knowledge isn't what I have, there's a button that says Insert Images www.planetside-universe.com is your friend, especially if he listed his characters. My point there was that it would have taken all of 20 seconds to confirm what he said. Numerically the Mag was inferior to the prowler and vanguard as well and yet it was OP. Yes, I would dispute numbers, the NC have decent infantry toys they just have a higher skill cap and take more certs to bring them up to a consistent level of lethalness.

No they really don't Kortez, they have a larger first shot multiplier yes, which translates to greater initial recoil, but by the 3rd or 4th shot NC weapons are surpassing them in Recoil in any position other than stationary, which usually takes to the 6th or 7th shot before eclipsing TR and VS weapon recoil. I do admit though that very few NC weapons have a horizontal recoil other than = so TR and VS must compensate for horizontal recoil as well, but this isn't necessarily negative either as you can compensate for it and actually use it to your benefit by strafing in the opposite direction, while you can't compensate or take advantage of = horizontal recoil.

Very well done post, Thank you for making it.

And no, Mag riders cannot get ontop of Space Australia. It is not possible. I have lived in Space Australia longer than some have been playing, if it hasn't happened in that time, it wont. I've watched them dry hump the sides of Space Australia. But they can't get up there.

I will say something though about the following comment.

I have had this point thrown at me numerous times in my own defense of snipers (I think By you actually, Wobberjockey) and what I had seen as an advantage for the VS ('Had Seen' being the key words here, because I didn't know about the minimum damage being lower, knowing that, I'm okay with VS guns), but regardless: The answer to your question: ALL THE TIME. Sorry, I play snipers a Lot, so Bullet drop is kind of a big deal to me and the others like me. I understand the point, most people are going to be fighting in the same 45 feet of each other between ridges, but I see bullet drop effecting my character once an hour, if not more often than that. Yeah, there is plenty of time it doesn't because I'm running around with a machine gun, shooting people a foot infront of me, but a Lot of time I'm not, and I have to figure that into what I'm doing.

I'm fairly certain I put a double return in that message, but the Firefly mention was in reply to Sharpe's mention of "NC for the brown coat vibe", it was a lazy way of replying to both of you at once without using quotes or individual posts, but Firefly was a TV series that was aired by FOX several years ago and ended roughly halfway through the first season because it supposedly wasn't getting enough ratings, most tend to love it or hate it, but it was basically a show about cowboys in space. You can find most of the episodes for free on Hulu.

Regardless, the Magrider is only considered OP due to it's faction based mobility advantage, which is undeniably powerful but not something that can't be overcome with equal or greater skill. Additionally, until the devs finally introduce that training field where we can all try out the toys before having to buy them, I foresee a lot more threads about OP this and UP that because a lot of the weapons really do require upgrades to be effective one way or another.

If anything's OP or just flat out broken in the game it's the Flinch Mechanic. How difficult would it have been to implement it for both ROF and Damage?


Also, have you read the full series of the Ender books from Orsan Scott Card? Including the Shadow series?

I believe the VR is coming, I forget which month. Hopefully that helps a bit as far as balance discussions go...well, one can hope at least haha. The Flinch thing is funny, when i'm on my NC I feel like you guys got the flinch mechanic the VS had in beta. It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.

And yes, great series. The first book and the Bean version were probably my favorites, did he write more than just Bean's retelling of, "Ender's Game"?

Oh sweet, thats what i thought, i appreciate the clarification

Sweet thanks for the info

ovbiously, sniping is a special case scenario.
and i meant it in terms of general infantry combat. the majority of infantry engagements take place at 100 m or less by my estimation (based soley on my experience here, i don't have actual stats to back that up) and in the interest of full disclosure, i play to engage targets at longer distances where the VS accuracy advantage (if they actually do have one) would come into play)

keep in mind, 100m is roughly the distance across the widest part of an amp station.

now legitimately, i don't know how much bullet drop the TR or NC would need to comp for inorder to make a shot at those distances. so part of that statement is a legitimate question. How often to TR/NC players need to comp for bullet drop at sub 100m combat? my experience is that many players are just as accurate as their VS counterparts at those distances.
on the flip side, damage degradation kicks in around 10m away, with the vast majority of TR and NC guns bottoming out at 65-85m meaning that a shot at a target 90m away will do the same damage as a shot 115m away, something not true with the VS guns.


this is especially problematic for snipers, as the TR and NC semi autos bottom out at 75m with 334 damage; a 3 shot kill, 2 headshots.
the VS sniper bottoms out at 250 @ 200m, a 4shot kill, or 3 headshots. (assuming a 1.5x headshot multiplier on Sniper HS's as per the ps2.dynet.com sheet)
might seem like a long ways, but for a sniper rifle, 200m is not a completely impractical engagement distance (provided the render distance gods are kind to you)
and as most infiltrators will attest, that extra shot is the difference between killing a target and not. indeed, most engies turn into rabbits on speed after they get hit the first time.


and all of this is why i work almost exclusively with bolt actions, which, as i pointed out in this thread, and many times in the infiltrator boards, are basically re-skins of one another, and also do not suffer from damage degradation.
it also makes life so much easier when the first clue that an enemy engie has that you are targeting him, is when you send a ball of plasma twice the temperature of the surface of the sun on a one way trip through their cerebellum. ;D

it should also say something that the TR PISTOL has a T-ROF that is higher than the carbines and AR's of the other 2 empires.

or , to succinctly frame the entire TR design philosophy:

MOAR DAKKA!!!

Actually, it varies from weapon to weapon. If you look at the equivalent weapons between empires and compare their cumulative recoil, in some cases the NC weapon has more recoil per second and sometimes its the same or slightly less. If you look at the default carbines and ARs, NC clearly has more recoil after the first couple of shots relative to TR and VS. But if you look at the default LMGs they're all about the same in terms of cumulative recoil (SAW is actually slightly better).

It also depends on how long you hold the trigger. For 10 bullets or less, roughly, the guns tend to follow the examples above. But above that the higher recoil per shot for NC guns does put them at a disadvantage. But if someone is consistently doing that, I think they have other problems that are fixed more easily than by adjusting the NC guns.

He isn't stating the mag has weaker armor. He is stating the misconception first, then went on to clarify that the mag and prowler have equal armor.