Wow, cool graph! Good work, mate. I think it's a little funny that the smg can actually output more damage per second at long ranges than the artemis can. I know it really depends on how good of a shot you are and that neither one will do well at range, but it still seems a little funny.
Unfortunately we won't see any desperately needed changes to the automatic scout rifles. SOE for sure already acknowledged those guns are one big fail and underpowered but they didn't dare to change anything on it in 3 months. They just don't want people to use it.
Nice graph, but I think damage per second would be a more useful measure. It also assumes that every round hits, and we know that's not the case. Recoil, CoF bloom, accounting for target movement, projectile velocity and the Artemis's forward grip allow me to land shots more reliably at mid range than the SMG. Now it's entirely possible that I'm simply more familiar with the Artemis, but it does feel more stable and easier to land hits with at mid range. Which makes sense, mid-range is what it was designed for. We only used it for CQ because it and the Nyx were better CQ options than sniper rifles. It's pretty much a moot point anyway though. Outside close or CQ range I prefer a semi-auto or bolt-action sniper rifle with 4x zoom.
I would be really curious to see people's stats on both artemis and the SMG, to check their accuracy and stuff, if we had an average we could input it into the weapons dps.
Weapon dps is quite useless to compare between SMGs and other weapons. I was a bit more sceptical about the SMGs power right from the start, after seeing the weapon damage charts and general stats I don't wonder anymore why it feels really great in some cases but one of the worst guns in others. The situations are clear: In CQC it is a beast. And I really only mean CQC. Even at short-medium ranges and moving targets the SMGs become the worst automatic weapon for infantry because of its low bullet velocity. You have to lead your aim much much more than with other guns which leads to a completely different weapon handling. While you somehow can handle all other weapons in the game with little bit of tweaking your aim, the SMGs are seriously different to handle.
The DPM statistic takes into account damage over a minute including Bullet Damage, ROF, Short reload time, and Magazine capacity. If you take the DPM and divide it by 60 sec then you get a more inclusive, realistic DPS. I could have done this but the graph would not have looked any different except for the scale of the y axis. And yes I know that this assumes 100% accuracy. It is not realistic but any other accuracy I choose will either be based on the average player, which some people won't like, or it will be my subjective analysis of accuracy(which more people will not like). So I just use the Ideal until I can come up with a way of representing accuracy realistically for each weapon. I am not so sure about SMG's in mid range. The data would indicate it should be comparable. SMG has the upper hand in terms of Recoil, specifically the Vanu one has Assymetric recoil which can be properly compensated for unlike symmetrical(random) recoil. SMG is superior in First shot recoil multiplier, and equal in ADS COF bloom. It's other ADS stats, while worse than the Artemis, are not so much worse as to make it that much more difficult to hit at range. The projectile velocity will be the biggest issue I think. As I stated before, based on the DPM over distance, the SMG's actually have a fighting chance to compete at mid ranges with the Artemis. In the end if i want a supremely versatile weapon I use the Nyx. I use DPM(Realistic DPS) because I agree DPS isn't very useful. DPS will only tell you about how a weapon will function ideally in 1 magazine while DPM tells you how the weapon will function at 2+ magazines. Even though my DPM assumes 100% accuracy It partially accounts for this inconsistency by taking reload time into account, in addition to bullet damage, magazine size, and ROF. The projectile velocity Is a big issue for this weapon. I personally think that with practice the SMG's can be used in a comparable fashion to the auto scouts in mid range. There are some stats from beta about empire average accuracy. They had them for empires and for specific weapons but the beta forums were password protected and no longer exist. Unless there is an archive somewhere it would be difficult to gain this information. Even if you did find the average for weapons, some people would reject that value. For now I have these Charts: I graphed many useful stats of weapons for side by side comparison. In the case of bolt actions, there are a few untested values that are 0(zero) for now. To make everything fit into a comfortably readable scale, I had to use multipliers on some values to make them fit. The multiplier means that the Actual value is not to scale, but the Relative value to the other weapons IS to scale. For example: Magazine size(100's) means that the actual value is 100 times the value on the scale. Credit to the good people at ps2.dynet.com for their data extraction. NC Infil weapons: TR Infil weapons: VS Infil weapons:
Ofc you can use the SMG like other guns with training. The problem remains that aiming becomes a guessing game the more you have to lead your aim. Enemies on mid range continually strafing from one side to another become a nightmare with the SMG. I also found it odd how long it takes before you get hit feedback even on mid range. It is like 5 to 6 bullets fired before the feedback for the first bullet comes in. So even more it becomes a guessing game if you currently hit or not. It is more like learning the gun by hard than shooting it with instant feedback. The current technical issues with lagging, stuttering and rubberbanding enemy models makes it even worse to hit with slower bullet speeds. In all honesty I'd prefer the automatic scout rifle if it had at least 5 more bullets in the magazine. Right now they should change the price to 250 SC / 500 Certs for it.
I bought it on day 1 of release. The auto scouts on the last day of beta did more damage per bullet and had slightly better COF and accuracy stats. They lowered the bullet damage and nerfed the COF&Accuracy between the last day of beta and release day with no patch notes or any notification of the change.
F2P business model: 1. intoduce new unbalanced weapons for a premium price 2. cash in while they're hot 3. nerf once sales decline and level off repeat for every F2P game ever.
Yeah, if they want to support the game until 2025 (lol.) they will have to nerfbait on and on or we end up with automatic rifles that kill one shot. And that's why I don't spend money on it.
Ive been using the artemis a lot more lately,bringing it into CQB.Im loving it more and more I use it to be honest. I can go up against other infantry fine,even when I meet another infil one vs. one using smg's.. It works well enough for me to know I will not be buying the current SMG.
@OP, The Artemis is a great weapon. Suppressor, Forward Grip, NV Scope and you can uncloak and drop the entire clip into an enemies head before they realize what's happening. Get the ammo cert for the suit slot and you're all set for dominating. The Artemis's recoil and deviation is almost nothing. It shoots where you aim. Play with it, put some certs in it, if you're serious about infiltrating you'll learn to love it.
oh? I'd be curious to see you use the SMG then.. I mean if you are so successful with the artemis as you make it sound, I can only imagine the shadow of death left in the wake of your passage with the SMG in hand. make a video imo I know I am not a "leet" player, but neither am I a rookie, especially at infiltrating, I was running infiltration missions with Ghost and the Artemis, since... well forever... and I consider myself an excellent infiltrator, not cuz I kill alot (I have only a 2.5 K/D) but because I play it smart, and accomplish missions first, get kills later. I am perfectly aware of the necessity of the artemis, like my post showed, I considered a must for my infiltrator missions and I use it well enough. However, your assertions on the weapon are just factually inaccurate it does not shoot where I aim at all past that first 2-3 shot burst, and burst firing the weapon isn't a very good idea, cuz also unlike what you said it will NOT kill a target before they know what happened, it depends on the situation and the target, most of my victims will sprint away as soon as they get the dmg indicator, many more will will turn and often shoot back before they drop, and even more typical is the situation where the clip runs out and I have to switch to my side arm as I take alot of dmg, often even get killed (damned hp boosts/heavy assaults-medics) but this is all irrelevant to the point of this thread, the point is bottom line, the artemis is a sub-par weapon, the weakest main weapon in the game by a large margin, we took it because it was the only option for its purpose, now we have the SMG that is... well a weapon arguably better than the carbine to begin with, while the artemis, still a sub-par carbine.
Im no ultra badass player,you can look up my stats to see that.Though I will say im getting better. All im saying is *I* do well enough with the Artemis to justify me not shelling out the SC or 1000 certs to get the current smg.
I think a buff to Artemis will be coming. Just keep on posting in this thread to get it on the dev's radar. All it basically needs is an increase of 10 charges per magazine or access to Extended Magazine and it will be fine.
It seems in general that SOE does not favor the BattleRifles or ScoutRifles, Which is said considering battle rifles tend to be my favorite weapon in games like COD and BF3... Saidly, in PS2, in addition to the lackluster stats, Battle and Scout Rifles seem to have horrible flinching values when ADSing making CQC extremely difficult to perform... Then again, as TR, one would think the that semi-auto weapons like these would be the faction's weakpoint. I mean it seems that semi-auto rifles in general are bad, the TR's SABR-13, a lot of horizontal recoil, in addition with a forced low RPM makes the gun a pain to use in the 2x burst mode and weak in semi-auto mode...
trust me, if you do as well as I perceived from your post, you are a VERY good player, and IF you ever get the SMG to replace the artemis, you WILL notice an even better performance from your infiltrator, guarantee it.
