Well, SMGs are out now, so what do you think about its potential usage for HA and overall performance?
This is purely theory coming from a guy who hasn't tried them, but I personally see them more as an infil weapon, for close range "wet work" as they say. For HA, I think you'd be better off using one of the CQ LMG variants for your faction, the Orion, MSW or Anchor. Then again, maybe SMG's are much more controllable than an LMG at the cost of being less useful at range. I'd imagine an SMG to have a pretty fast reload, meaning a dedicated group could move from room to room and clear it quickly if they're cautious. We'll have to see what the datamined info will show on the stats first I think, to get an idea of where it's effective range is intended to be, although I think we can all agree it's going to be CQ/short most likely. The issue at hand is whether or not using an SMG over one of the CQ LMG's is justifiable.
Might be worth it. SMGs have x0.75 ADS movement speed. More dps than TR/NC LMGs. Same dps as Orion for VS. Better hipfire accuracy for every faction. Lower recoil. Fast reload. At the cost of. Ammo.(bring an engineer or a sunderer!) Magazine size. Range. For close quarters, you might actually be better off with an SMG + extended mag. I wouldn't bother using the SMG for general purpose situations, though. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...=SMG&sortcolid=8&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250
No theory needed, here you go. Infiltrator + SMG. I pity the TR SMG, it only does 125 damage per bullet while the NC one does 167. The TR version gets 30 bullets per clip while the NC version gets 25. It takes 8 shots to kill with the TR one, 14 against an NMG shielded heavy. That's 1/2 of your clip. Pray you don't miss. On the bright side, the TR SMG has an 896 RPM... so you'll be out of bullets pretty fast, but it might not matter anymore! Some interesting observations: - Between the TR/NC, you have the same accuracy in every aspect. The VS have worse ADS accuracy (which is weird because the bullet drop advantage doesn't really apply here). All three SMGs have the exact same hipfire accuracy, though. - Bloom rates. The TR SMG is a bullethose, its bloom is ridiculously fast. The NC and VS SMG has about 15% less blooming speed than it, and they have the exact same bloom rate as each other. Coupled with the VS ADS inaccuracy, this makes the NC SMG the most accurate by a hair while the TR one starts off accurate and quickly starts flailing. VS get the short stick here. - Both the NC and VS SMGs have the faster reload speed on partial clip, the TR SMG is slower by half a second, and the VS are the fastest reloaders when the mag is empty. - Damage. The TR rack in at 1866 dps, the NC at 1814 dps, and the VS at 1787.5 dps. If you are unfamiliar with these numbers, the VS SMG is equal to the CARV/MSW-R/Orion while both the NC and TR SMGs are MORE lethal. Looking at point blank TTKs, the TR comes in at 0.469, the NC at 0.460, and the VS at 0.48 even. So despite the DPS difference, the NC SMG is the most lethal at point blank if all shots hit while the VS get screwed yet again. Still, all three values are a fraction of a fraction of a second difference and shouldn't matter with these high ROFs and the close effective range of SMGs. - The NC's usual accuracy advantage is extremely mild here, replaced instead with better clip efficiency due to stronger bullets. I'm sure it has better horizontal recoil like all NC weapons, but at the ranges these are meant for, that hardly matters. The TR's usual ROF advantage is definitely present here with the highest ROF of any weapon in the game, but they also have the lowest recoil which is new, most likely to deal with the absurd ROF handling. If you hated flinchlock before, stay away from TR SMGs. The VS advantages of better recoil, better accuracy, better move speed, and no bullet drop are surprising NOT present in this case as they actually have worse accuracy, barely any different recoil from NC, no movement advantages, and bullet drop at point blank doesn't matter. They even lose the damage race with the lowest DPS. Instead they take home a 0.15 second reload advantage. Just going by the raw data, the NC SMG seems to be the deadliest, the TR SMG the twitchiest, and the VS SMG inferior in every possible way to both of them. I don't know how viable strafing hipfire with the TR SMG will be with only a 30 round clip, if you miss too much you're out of ammo fast and it gets to be the most inaccurate SMG very quickly. It definitely adheres to the TR motto of spraying bullets in the general vicinity of the thing you want dead, but the NC SMG looks like CQC-oriented Gauss Rifle. I ~LOVE~ the Gauss Rifle and I think I'm going to love this SMG too. Definitely, purely for the clip count and better bullet damage. Spending half a clip to kill a standing target is garbage, for TR at least the LMG will be better. NC SMG you can argue is only slightly less clip efficient than an assault rifle, so it's viable in place of an LMG and gives the NC Heavy an actual hipfire weapon (though still not with a high ROF, that'll never happen so give up on it now). The data suggest there is no reason to use the VS SMG at all unless you are an infiltrator, that it's an inferior Orion. But we'll have to test it out and see.
That's good to know. Potentially viable as a CQC weapon in the right circumstances, and definitely something an infil or LA would want. Not really an NC HA weapon, but not terrible either. We'd be better off with a shotgun or maybe the JH now (which I just spent some time with, and its...not bad. Not great, but better by a good margin over what it was).
My question is why are all the new guns 1000 certs? Did SoE forget about the other 999 numbers before 1000? Why not have more 100 and 250 cert guns? SMGs seem like they should be 250certs at the most...idk why they are 1000..
Bear in mind the Orion is 0.75 ADS so any Heavy with that would be a bit daft to go SMG. I know this was a TR SMG thread but ut turned into general SMG discussion
Edit... got the wrong end of the stick fixed, useless post is useless. Basically I thought you were specifically talking about the TR SMG and I was like WTF NO WAY ORION DPS *RAGE*... teaches me to skim read Interestingly I just found out NC SMG actually has a DPS higher than the Orion (and of course the VS SMG) ... and there was me looking at the 652 RPM and thinking LOL NC SHAFTED AGAIN poor fkers
Because they want moneys and if they put it at 250 hardly anybody will unlock it via SC. Sadly the one real drawback to FTP is you have to release items at a hard to graft easy to pay level, or very few people will pay for them. This also means that the vast majority of future weapon releases are likely to be 1k certs and 700 SC and deals of the day will never be for certs and SC, just SC. They want to normalise us to the thinking that "in PS2, if I want something, it's 2 weeks working for it, 1 month just being patient, playing like normal but not spending any certs, or *insert small but not insignificant amount of your currency here* and I can have it now".
But what about the people who view spending real money on a game as a waste of time, or those who dont wish to spend 1000 certs on one upgrade? THen the fact the guns all look largely the same, making it kinda boring if you do spend money on the gun. I think its kinda ******** to make all the guns only the highest possible cost. They really should have more 100 cert guns for those who want to upgrade quickly and 250 cert guns for those in the middle tier who just want something different. I will most likely end up dropping the 7 bucks on the EM6 when the time comes, saving the certs for something else..but just sayin, why not make more mid tier, less expensive guns...
I don't disagree with you, but I've said why they are likely to only release at 1k Certs and 700 SC and while I'd love it if they dropped a few more 100, 250 or hell, even 500 cert weapons, I can't see that happening all too often. What we may find after a while is that they start discounting the older ones when they stop selling as well and the stats show them the majority of players already have them, even then it wouldn't surprise me (but disappoint me) if they discount the SC price only, but we're talking 6 months down the line minimum for anything like that regardless of what form such discounts come in.
It's quite a nobrainer that ppl who do not want to spend money on this game are not a target audience for SOE. So short answer: they don't care and why should they? I'm not saying I disagree with you, a rocket launcher should cost more than a SMG, but try to look at it from SOE's perspective. My bet is, the high-tier guns of today will be the mid-tier guns of tomorrow. So no point in introducing mid-tier guns now ;-) Maybe they will make some older weapons cheaper, when they are surpassed by newer ones and noone buys them at all anymore. But I wouldn't expect it. The current SC and cert prices on many items appear to be set arbitrarily without any thoughts on balance and progression in mind. We'll see...
There are people here who talk about dropping 200 bucks on the game already, I just shake my head when I see that stuff, knowing SOE can get away with just about anything.
I'd say the only reason a TR heavy would use it is if they were Infil primary, had a fully kitted SMG and had put zero certs into any LMGs. I do know a HA that uses a shotgun more often than not but, besides that, a proper LMG setup is the way to go.
There's a profitable business model and then there's stuff like that. It's like lockboxes will be seen as a viable thing by Smed soon enough.
Would the SMG being a good close quarters weapon for Medics? My NS-11 jumps around all over the place when I spray at someone close to me, and there's no burst fire. Edit: didn't see the subforum, I can move this.
No worries. It's a general discussion, so may as well work with it. It would probably be a great weapon for a close support medic. You get lots of close range power, still have some mid-range support potential, and it lets your medic be a force on the field when pushing into a building. If that's your thing, then an SMG would probably be great for you, assuming you don't like the CQ version of the AR.
T9 Carv or MSW will be a better bet if you want to shoot people past 20m or want more than 30(40) bullets at a time. Go with the Carv, it's free.
