Consider making deployed sunderers much more resistant to mines and c4

NC sunderer north of crown heavily defended.

First attempt, spawn behind their line and get moving. Was 20 meters a way from it when I got spotted and in that second they undeployed and started moving it while the infantry took me down.

Second attempt spawn at crown, managed to sneak my way close enought to make a mad dash to it. I go around a rock and I'm greeted with 20-30 infantry moving my way. NOT ONE shot me, I move to the sundy deployed mines and actually had time to get out of there.

"/y Pizzas delivered to NC sundy, have fun guys!"

Came back shortly afterwards to help with cleanup as our forces were closing in.

If 20-30 people didn't shoot me while I rushed towards them then they deserved to loose it.

Which is what the heart of this thread is trying to debate - whether tank mines are broken or whether they are working as intended. At the moment, one argument is basing itself on perception of how something should work based on its name ("mine") and concerns of balance, and the other side is basing itself on actual in-game functionality and considerations for how not to make it a crapshoot of resource waste.

If AT Mines are going to move closer to the "uncontroversial" definition of a "mine," then core functionality will need to be modified. I'm not going to make a minefield, or contribute to one, if I feel it locks up my future uses of a limited number of mines and future uses of mines negates my past applications for them.

Active resources. If you can't make 4000exp in a vehicle resource zone in under 40 minutes you're doing something wrong. But that also applies to the engineer I guess. I spend 150 resources blowing up a sunderer but I instantly get 70 back (premium), more if there were people standing around the thing when it blew (there normally are).

Incidentally, if you pulled your sunderer when you had 750 resources you only need to make 50 more to pull your next one, and that's counting from the time it was pulled, not destroyed. Anyone in your squad should be able to pull 2 in a row, and if you're still losing them when they're being chain pulled you're doing something wrong. Consider parking a scout radar flash nearby to catch incoming enemies earlier. Use claymores or proxomity mines if you're really paranoid.

You have options to deal with tank mines. Options that go beyond mine guard, as well. If you choose not to use them it isn't SoE's job to compensate for that.

Edit - Throwing my hat into that 'true definition of mines' - even if they didn't detonate on stationary vehicles, it's still a non-issue for an engineer to use his grenade to detonate them. Explosive force will detonate traditional, realistic mines. Is that good enough for you?

1st of all i don't want any invulnerability i want only that in order to place explosives in stationary Sundered it should be takes much longer than 3s.If noone defend that sunderer it will be blown up anyway but it take a bit longer.

I would glad to see C4 be the same like thrown mines close to stationary Sunderer.
Why ? Both explosives work the same way. You throw them they blow up.
If sunderer drive on mine, and explosion is from bottom it should be blown up normally.

No the heart of this thread is that Sunderers die "too fast" for farmers and death match play styles. Note the "nerf c4" part which has absolutely nothing to do with mines.

Its also a horrible idea. Odds are sony devs are therefore very interested. They already implemented the invulnerability no one asked for or wanted (which was voted down 2-1 so much for listening to players).

Exactly

I wouldn't mind if laying down an AT mine would take 10 seconds or more and I couldn't put down two near each other ...

... if I could create actual mine fields with them, and they would one-shot non-mineguarded vehicles as well as immobilise ("movement system damaged" status) mineguarded ones. That means something like 10 mines for the first cert level, 15-20 for the second, Infantry resource cost reduced to about 30, "redeploying" them wouldn't cost me resources, and I could pick them up again.

As a bonus, the area denial fields we could create would "feel" and work like actual mine fields.

Until then, it's a rather expensive generic anti-materiel explosive charge with a build-in proximity trigger and IFF and that's it. Don't get confused by the name "mine" and your own obsolete notions about their capabilities.

Outside of Esamir the world is far to narrow for real minefields. Plus that would also require "mine clearing" vehicles as well.

Mines = fine.
Players = bad.

Dude...If you fight for something around 10-15 minutes at least MY resourcestack is full from fighting so...thats not one of my problems.

Minceclrearingcehicles are already in game. They are called: EVERY vehicle with ir- or nightvidion

yeah i totaly agree with you...why should a single player be able to spawn a sunderer and influence the whole battle. Why should a player be able to pull an rocketpod/liberator/he-tank to influence the whole battle. Dude get some realitycheck. EVERBODY and EVERYTHING in this game influences the battle greatly. If you are not influencing it your doing it horribly wrong. You can cap a relay-station=your whole faction and their mothers can spawn there. One dude can set a spawnbeacon and that can serve as an permanent spawn for a whole platoon. Saying that one player should not be able to influence the battle then we should take out...nearly everthing that does something because everything influences the battle. That 1 dude that just repaired the SCU? Saved his side the battle. That 1 dude that killed the liberator..saved the battle..he shouldnt be able to do it..mimimi..they should need more then 1 player to kill a vehicle bought by ONE of the enemys while ALL of the other enemys can do the same. A medic reviving ppl whie the enemydont has one? Massiv influence. A engi while all others are dead? Only source of ammo in a game where you only got 4-5 mags and need 1 per player(depending on skill). Seriously. Realitycheck?

I keep reiterating this, but it's not 1 player being able to influence a battle.
It's 1 player being able to influence the battle so easily.

In regards to all your other points:
The outpost capture takes time to claim, if the player dies, the claim stops and is retaken.
Spawnbeacons have a very high respawn timer on them, and are easily destroyed in return for the ability to drop in anywhere in the vicinity of it, plus you need to be in a squad - and only those in the squad are affected.
The tank and liberator are as good as dead without support.
The person who pulled a Sunderer needed support to get it within a reasonable distance of the objective, or conversely, needed to defend it untill enough people started spawning there.
The 1 player who managed to repair the SCU, took ~20 seconds to do so, and needed to do so either after having cleared the area, or with support.
The Medic needs to either stay hidden, or be defended by the remaining forces - also your forces need to target enemy medics for that to be the case - in most situations.
Likewise, the Engineer needs to be defended, and might well need a medic around in case he dies.

All your examples are carried out by one player, yes. But without support, are much harder to accomplish.
The same does not apply to the current mechanic where Sunderers are taken down so easily with C4/Mines.

Again, I've said this over and over, the problem isn't that 1 player is able to influence the battle. The problem is 1 player is able to influence the battle so easily, and with so little practical counter-measures. Especially when compared to other classes/vehicles that are supposedly even more geared towards such a scenario, who still need support to be succesfull, and even then, not nearly as fast as the current C4/Mine approach, all the while suffering an aquire-timer as well as resource cost, whereas the Engi/LA can attempt it ad infinitum, and only needs one decent run to accomplish their goal, again, without support.

So one guy blowing up a sunderer is bad, but one guy forcing everyone to use IR and go at a snails pace = fine?

Right.......

Likes for OP = 3
Likes for telling the OP to L2P = 29

I feel with you..it must be realy hard work to get a sunderer...Realy hard work. And then the mindbogging driving. Boa..hard work. Against this finding a way that is not full of enemys/mines/tanks on your way to the sunderer is totaly easy. Especialy when your team got ONE SINGLE sniper with something that can be considered a brain and just hacks a vehicleconsol to enable ALL your team to repsawn the sunderer.

Whatever dude..whatever. All i read is "mimimi i dont want to use it". nearly all tanks i encounter uses ir by default to better see infantery and better farm them. Snails pace? Whats snailspace at shooting the ground while driving?
By the way..let me quess. You will start whining when i star using smokenades on the field to cover my team and kill you through the smoke with....wait for it...NV-SCOPES. If you dont have one. Not my problem. Same goes for mineguard. If you are not interested in defending your sunderer. Not my problem.

Pretty sure someone posted a similiar argument here, somewhere. But whatever, aslong as sunderers are throw-away vehicles, there is no need to make them any stronger than they already are. Everyone can spawn a sunderer, at ANY vehicle pad, it costs a lousy 50certs to turn it into an AMS.

I can have my whole squad spawn 12 sundies, and bring them to the fight. One gets blown up? So what, just deploy the next one. It might be a personal los for you, because you paid some hefty resources for it and have a CD, but plenty of other people can step up for you. We´ve been fighting WASP yesterday, it was only a small squadsized skirmish, we still had to blow up 4 or 5 sundies to stop them from spawning, tho.

Unless SOE makes sundies more expensive, reduces the places they can be spawned, and increases the amount of invested Certs for the AMS to be used, I say; STAY.THE.HELL.AWAY.FROM.BUFFING.THEM.

Again: Support.
Your scenario requires support from other players. If you spawn a Sunderer in a hostile base that's filled to the brim with hostiles, chances are it's dead rather fast.
If you need to get within a proper distance of the battle, you need support or be taken out.

Spawning as LA or Engi and do the Rambo McLoneWolf dance, does not. It only requires a modicum of luck to delay and push back the entire attacking force, who, unless they are already close to a friendly base, need to keep spawning additional Sunderers that can be taken again just as easily, even if the defending force failed at pushing back the main bulk of the attacking one.

Again, an AV MAX or MBT can not hope to do it as effectively or frequently, as a class supposedly not as geared towards that specific scenario.

I agree, it shouldn't be a one-sided nerf. Adding an increase in respawn timer whenever you spawn at a sunderer, for example.
As it stands, the notion that a force needs multiple Sunderers to counter a 1-man tactic, only strengthens the zerg aspect of the game, as any smaller squad that doesn't field X number of Sunderers, are many times more prone to failure because of it, and the only viable solution to attack succesfully is to congregate into a zerg.

Sunderers are fine... If your team doesn't repair/watch it, it goes boom. Teamwork, because things left unchecked should 'splode!

Sunderers are the biggest, most expensive ground unit in the game they should definitely be more difficult to take down than just a couple mines/c4. It should take an equivalent amount of effort/resources to take it down. It costs nothing but a bit of time to keep respawning and endlessly charging at it with mines/c4

They are the biggest, most expensive ground unit in the game that anyone can purchase and use to full effect as an AMS sundy for the low, low price of 50 certs.

The counter to this either 700 certs worth of C4 and additional weaponry + 200 infantry points worth of C4, or a minimum of 100 certs worth of mines and 150 infantry points worth of mines, with additional costs scaling astronomically for the low, low price of 30 cert Mine Guard.