Honest Balance Discussion (VS/TR/NC)

I'm deadly serious. You don't realise just what advantage the NC weapons Have. Vanu weapons just spray everywhere but the target, they are utterly useless at any range.

I do not appreciate being killed by a NC pistol from full health in a matter of moments against a guy I am aiming at, firing three-round bursts at and ensuring I use recoil control against, because of a combination of my assault rifle spraying madly inaccurately everywhere, and the bullets that do hit doing minimal damage.

I just wanted to re-post these verbatim quotes in our discussion thread from one of the SOE Developers from an interview he just did. It's a vindication and proof the developers realize the faction balance is very wonky.

Now it's just a matter of seeing how they deal with it and how quickly. The longer they wait, the worse it will be for PS2 in terms of player base erosion, relative faction population demographics, gross player cert disparity and "butt-hurt" feelings if some nerfs are required.

Some quotes from Clegg: "The NC is the most handicapped, hosed empire in the game"
"People who get kills with NC have the most skill"
"I remember when I switched to TR and I was like "OMG this is fricken COD easy mod"e

So, a SOE developer in just those three sentences stated exactly what I said in my original post in this thread.

The data suggests exactly what everyone facing Vanu feels. Easy mode.

Just, LOLOLOLOL

Either you have not played both factions, or your a Troll.

Which one is it?

After my initial post in this thread I decided to bite the bullet and try Vanu to see how my perceptions lined up from the other side of the fence. My Vanu is only BR13 so I'm not as cert'd up as my NC character but I concentrated my certs on the areas I felt were different (ie didn't bother certing Lightning). This is still a work in progress but I'm focusing on HA (Orion specifically), sniper rifles, a bit of MAX and of course the Magrider.

My thoughts now I've tried both:
1) The Orion is clearly much easier to use (especially for new players) and vastly more accurate at close range. This translates into much easier CGC fighting, however the advantage seems to drop off mid ranges and at ultra long range the NC guns (EM6 I use) seem to be better. Also at point blank (ie both turn a corner and be face to face) the NC guns work better. I have to admit that while the difference is there it is not quite as mental as I had assumed. For LMG's my vote goes for 0m (NC), 1-50m (Vanu), 50m+ (NC), that being said the vast majority of fights happen in the 1-50m range so Vanu get the win but by less of a margin than I originally thought.

As a side note, the Vanu pistol is goddamn awful, almost useless. Both NC and TR pistols are clearly orders of magnitude better.

2) The Vanu MAX is clearly substantially weaker than the NC MAX, the AI gun has a much longer useful range but has way to high a COF for the damage it does, end result, TTK on infantry is worse than a regular LMG at all ranges and with no corresponding increase in short range power like the NC scat/hackMAX. The AA weapon is much easier to use at range than the Falcon on the NC MAX but seems to lack any real punch, more useful as an anti-MAX weapon. If the AI gun had its COF tightened up a fair bit so you could actually squirt accurate fire at mid range then the Vanu MAX might actually become useful.

3) The Spectre is an interesting weapon, its like a cross between the NC bolt actions and semi-automatics. Its not as stable as the Shadow but it has good hitting power and is much easier to use. In some ways its the ideal starter weapon for an new Infi. I haven't tried the Parallax yet and don't have many certs but it would seem newbie Vanu snipers have a pretty easy time of it compared to NC but for the longer term, probably even.

4) Magrider. Just lol. Day and night, chalk and cheese. I've had plenty of opportunity to be both driver and also Saron gunner. The Saron comes with some limitations that I wasn't aware of (very low maximum elevation, slow reload etc) but it is essentially like having 2 main turrets, it is waaaaaaaaay too good at doing what it is designed to do, ie killing other tanks and exploding infantry at ultra long range. Too accurate, too heavy hitting for the accuracy.

As for the rest of the Magrider, the gun is OK, about the same as Vanguard, the armour is OK, not as weak as lots of weepy Vanu drivers complain (in practical terms, same survivability as Vanguard). But the hover, omg, its just ..., the ability to escape, dodge fire, aim, even simple travel from A to B everything is just 100 times easier in the Magrider.

So ... my experiences so far in summary: Vanu infantry, yes easier to use but not as dangerous as I first thought, clearly much better for new players but the waters become a bit more muddy at higher skill and cert levels, still probably a small(er) win for Vanu. Vanu MAX, definitely as weak as I expected. Magrider, every bit as better than the other tanks as you can imagine.

Well, hate to dig this post out from the grave, but i got something to add. Let me know if this has been said.

I don't totally disagree with SOE's logic: making TR and VS more intuitive and with less learning curve; and making NC more challenging (and sometimes very frustrating). I mainly enjoy games that take that approach: letting players choose a more difficult path that requires more finesse and practice. I don't think they should make any huge attempt at evening the playing field. Big balance patches could go well... but based on SOE's patching history, it could very possibly cause the internet to die or something. I think that a few additions and modifications around the edges might help, though I'm not sure what those would be. Magrider is ********, excuse my french. Throw it out and give them something that at least touches the ground.

My point: I would take Gauss weapons and their variants over a t9 carv any day, and i really hope they dont make nc weapons into carvs. NC weapons have a great feel and handle in a more satisfying way than TR and VS ones. What they should do is fill in one or two gaps in the nc arsenal that cause huge tactical annoyances.

Cheers Zazen. I like the post.

Tgia

I couldn't help but LOL big time here. You definitely weren't trying to start off with any sort of constructive discussion here. You came, you stated your biased opinions without any facts to back it up, and then you expected everyone to agree with you. That already didn't happen.

I've played since beta and seen a lot of game mechanics change, some for better, some for worse.

But to those of you who think VS is easy mode, either you're on crack rock, you haven't been checking the game build update topics with regularity, or you haven't even played all the factions yourself. I have played each and every one as well, both in the beta and after release.

Part of what people are using to base their opinions is their own play style which somewhat invalidates their claims as being based on anything other than pure opinion. I liked the VS for their lore and traits/characteristics. I honestly didn't give a **** about their tanks or aircraft. Put me on any faction and you will find me spending a good bit of my time in a tank because I enjoy operating tanks. Tank blows up, then I go infantry for a while until I can readily locate another tank spawn.

Now I'm not sure what people think is easy mode and for what reason but there doesn't seem to be a general consensus, at least not in this topic. I would attribute that mostly to fanboy mentality and people in the defense of the faction they are associated with. How dare anyone tell them their faction is OP, it's always the other guys. I like the VS but it won't take much more for me to switch to the TR. I've never liked the NC too much because their faction is heavily based on big armor but the least maneuverability (vehicles). Well I like maneuverability over all else which was one of the reasons I chose VS.

Just before the most recent build update I played the TR with a new character and was shocked at how easy it was. Here is why I say this. I only have a BR25 on the VS and his K/D fluctuates between 3.5 and 4. My TR is somewhere around BR15 and has a K/D of 6. I spend no more time in the Prowler than in the Magrider. In fact when playing TR I spent more time as infantry because I actually found it more fun as opposed to the BS (VS). I could mow down groups of infantry easily with the incredibly high RoF and barely more recoil than the VS have. To me, it was no contest. In fact, based on this topic made 2 months ago the TR has the highest RoF and the highest DPS; http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...faction-flavor-and-hard-numbers-graphs.56384/

So when trying out the other factions, I wonder how your K/D compares to the one you like after playing to at least BR10? How much did your play style vary or affect your gameplay on other factions?

Furthermore many servers are reporting a significant drop in the VS population, like on the one I'm on. I believe much of the VS population moved to the TR and the rest went to the NC based on a review of the TR population across all of the islands. The TR usually dominate more than one island while the last one remains contested between the VS and NC. So to those people who said they're making the VS OP in order to 'make it more popular', sorry but you must not have been around for the beta. The VS WAS the popular faction until the Ultimate Empire Showdown came along and a combination of TotalBiscuit fanboy mentality and nerfing the VS caused a massive population shift toward the TR.

Well this is a game in the end, make pretend all you want. If the VS vehicles continue to get nerfed and the population continues to decline I will not stand around and take it up the ***. I have no complaints against the NC in regard to 1v1 infantry combat against the VS. My complaint for infantry is against the TR but that is what the devs have stated from the beginning they're good at. But since a majority of combat is infantry, they need to figure out just how much better the TR should be. My only real annoyance with other factions is how much the VS vehicles have been nerfed while other factions get boosts, like in the latest build update...

Infantry combat, I think it could have the balance improved a bit there but I don't think it's out of hand. Vehicle combat is where the imbalances come into play.

Nerf Vanu.

What guns are you using with the vs? I normally play an engineer and I can kill very few people with the stock gun they get. can't count the number of times I have come up behind someone shot them in the back or back of the head from 10-15 feet between us just to have them turn around and kill me in what seems like 2 hits. NC or TR doesn't seem to matter.