I don't see how VS guns are OP: Stats inside

Vorpal is an alt account that trolls.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/character.php?stats=Vorpal

Fair enough, he is an NC char claiming to be a Vanu. He should have the balls to talk crap in the forum using his main, which he does not.

The fact that you advocate SPA just shows you're not worth taking seriously. SPA is willingly taking a nerf to your gun. It is bugged and lowers damage in very close range, only extends your default damage to 15m (but as I said, lowers it in CQC, which makes it pointless) and lowers bullet velocity which means less DPS.

The only benefit SPA has is that it extends your default maximum damage to 15m, you get 5 extra meters of base damage, which is ruined by the bug that makes it lower at sub-10m ranges. Even if they fix the bug, it will be worthless, you're getting a SMALL bit more range on your maximum damage at the cost of bullet velocty, which is not a smart tradeoff. SPA will never be worth taking unless they make it a raw damage increase, not just a small extension of your base damage for an extra few meters.

Sorry, that's not me. As you should know, forum name has no relation to in game name. Vorpal was taken in game (sadface) but not on the forums (hooray!)

I've been playing 50/50 NC and VS the last week (mainly LA for both), and even though I have much less stuff unlocked on my VS (like no laser sights, nanoweave 2 vs 4 for my NC, no C4 etc), I still find the game significantly easier as VS, and have a bit higher KDR. Making sure every bullet hits is easier, and focusing the head is easier. You can also see where your bullets are going much easier which allows for easier fine aim. As NC even though the Mercenary is decent, it still feels like the bullets are spraying, even when ADS and crouched.

As VS I win 1on1s that it feels like I should have lost, whereas with NC I'm often looking at the death screen saying to myself "that's bull****". I'll probably keep playing both, but the VS has been more fun recently.

I'd advocate everyone rolling an alt and finding out for themselves, but you have to play it a decent amount, like 20 hrs not just 1.

I am taking it seriously actually - And I find myself way more effective with a slower Jaguar than a super fast one. Just feel that the faster your ROF is, means that one slip up with aim = You're losing way too much ammo to make it even viable in a fight and you'll just drain yourself into a reload and cost yourself that duel.

Half my outfit rolled NC for a day on Mettherson and we ***** TR and VS. We had no Air, standard tanks and guns and all of our K/D ratios were through the roof. Snipers default gun OP compared to VS, Medic and Engi guns are OP compared to VS. And do not even get me started on how good the scattermaxes are and hacksaws, holy crap they are awesome and chew through other factions like butter. I think you should try playing a VS and then talk.

I for one would gladly just trade weapons and then watch the insane QQ'ing commence.

I die to the Trac-5 a lot, particularly at close range - but the extra bullets are never a factor. Either I am dead or the enemy is dead in half a clip. If you taking 30 shots at someone and not killing them, either you have very bad aim and need to work on it, or you are at a long range fight, in which case, duck behind some cover when you run out. So the larger clip size for the trac-5 is most useful at long range where you actually might need 40 bullets to kill someone instead of 6, but actually the trac-5 is hands down the worst of the default carbines in terms of long range.

In my experience it takes about half a clip to kill a guy using any carbine (unless they are sitting still and you can come up right behind them and place your shots precisely). Which means you are going to reload after a single kill, because you can't be *sure* of killing another guy with what you have left - and coming up 1 or 2 bars short is embarassing (although you can always switch to pistol if you are NC or TR. If you are VS, don't bother. our pistols are terrible. Try knives).

So...both the TR and VS LA will kill some guy. Then reload. The TR spends longer reloading and is more vulnerable to someone else coming along and killing him while he is reloading. This has happened to me numerous times on my TR character. It happens much less frequently on my VS character (particularly if you are using the solstice, which has an amazing reload). I therefore find the larger clip size to be nowhere near as good as the faster reload speed.

What I *am* irked at is that TR LA get 50 more bullets! WTF? I run out of ammo all the time on my VS LA operating behind enemy lines and really really really wish I got the same # of bullets total as a TR LA does. I don't find the clip size to be as important. I also find the ammo belt upgrade to be too expensive for too little effect. It should be something like 5 TR magazines at 40 and then 7 VS magazines at 30.

If you are fighting two guys who are facing you, you're going to die if they are semi-competent. As an LA you can generally choose to engage or not engage. So try to engage smartly so you only engage one foe at a time. I have never ever said "I"m gonna pick this a fight here even though I'm massively outnumbered because I do technically have enough bullets to kill all these guys!

Anyway, 15 rounds is enough to kill one guy, so you can kill two guys with VS carbines (I've done it repeatedly). You can also kill 2 guys with the TR carbines. But killing 3 guys with the TR carbines is eh, iffy, so the extra bullets don't quite usually let you kill an extra guy, they just let you make up for the lower accuracy the TR carbines have.

If you come across a group of guys who don't know you are there, you have *many* tools available to take them out that are much more effective than 10 more bullets in your magazine: C4, grendes, knife work, etc. That said, if you are using a suppressor on your LA (which you should if you are trying to be sneaky) you can shoot them in the back and reload as long as you like, pretty much. I've often run out of ammo this way.

And in those situations, the 50 extra rounds that TR has can equate to 3 more kills that you could have gotten if you'd had 200 bullets as well. In situations where you do run out of ammo these kills are almost a certainty. I feel much more irked that I have such such a lower total ammo capacity than I am that my clips are smaller and reload faster.

Recoil on carbines IS meaningless, anyone who has spent more than two hours with their carbine can completely counter the recoil, their crosshairs don't move up while firing, arguing that such a small difference has any meaning at all only comes into play when talking about players who just freshly picked up their weapon. Arguing about recoil that's difficult to compensate for is completely valid though, it's a LOT harder to compensate for left AND right pull rather than just a static right pull, this actually requires some degree of skill rather than just pulling down on the mouse.

And what game are you playing? In Planetside 2 you get most kills within 20 rounds, so 30 is enough to kill one enemy and damage another for most players, 40 is enough to kill two. If you're reloading at 20 rounds as TR in the middle of a gunfight you're absolutely terrible, VS has to reload or pull out a pistol, TR gets the second kill with the battle rifle. Saying that a 33% increase in clipsize is "barely an advantage" is just plain silly, it gives each clip the ability to kill two enemies reliably for most players, neither NC not VS can boast this, they both have to reload or pull out their inferior pistols. Have you actually played as a TR light assault or engineer?

Anyhow, CoF has always mattered more than recoil, that's the actual accuracy of the weapon, recoil is meaningless when you can easily compensate for it with nearly all weaponsm

I like NC weapons, I really do. I prefer high bullet damage more, the higher ROF. Recently I've created VS character for the first time since Beta. The main problem for me was - to learn how many bullets does it take to get a kill comparing to NC. But damn, VS weapons are easy to handle. I'm not saying that they are op, just easy to use. My default HA without any certs was performing on par with my decently certed NC. Orion just melts faces at default state, didn't try it with attachments. I guess it will be better.

The reason VS weapons are OP is synergy. Synergy is when two or more things together create something far greater than its parts. You are looking at stats, but fail to see that the combination of no downsides to VS weapons make them far better than NC weapons and slightly better than TR.

YOU HAVE NO DOWN SIDES. Damage drop off doesn't count, because its far outside normal infantry encounter range. And even then you win by making the other guy flinch due to no bullet drop, and ROF.


All the weapons you compare to have major downsides and have far less synergy than VS


would you want a gun that shoots a hundred bullets really fast but cant hit past 3 feet?
or a gun that shoots 50 bullets and can hit the top of the mountain?
VS basically got the perfect weapons.

Good TR and NC players break out their pistols after they run out of ammo and finish off the enemy, the rest whine here on the forums. When a Vanu breaks out his pistol(upgraded or standard) the enemies laugh in our face. A player must be smart in combat and know the strengths and weaknesses of their factions then try and force situations where they have the advantage. All of your examples garbage because they only show the circumstances where in ideal situations for the Vanu player, he has an advantage.

I would gladly trade NC or TR weapons for Vanu any day of the week, sign me up and quit making a lawyers argument on why your client killed 50 people but is innocent. It is very tiresome.

Wow

"nc barely have to aim at all"? at all?!!?!?!?!!?!? we die if we dont get the first shot off, if we miss we get penalized the most because we lack High RoF weapons.
NC weapons have the most recoil out there, and the the most spread while hip firing.
Thats even on normal situations, it gets worse when you are getting shot given the flinching mechanics that dont even take in consideration the damage received, wich makes high rate of fire weapons even more deadlier since its hard to aim shots back at the attacker if you are getting shot.

I know its natural to consider that what kills you is somewhat unfair but step on a nc character and give it a try for a couple hours see if you are not lying to yourself by thinkin that way.

Sounds like you need to get better (or use better guns). It takes 6-7 bullets that hit an enemy to kill them (less if head shots). If you hit only half your rounds, that's about 15 shots to kill someone. You can kill 2 people in one clip - I do it all the time on my vx67.

You can also kill two people in one clip on any of the TR carbines I've tried. But you usually can't kill a 3rd. Of course if you get the 3rd low, you can pull out your amazing pistol and finish them.

The TR pistol their LA's get and the 50 extra bullets they get are both far more of an advantage than a 10 bigger clip size. The 10 bigger clip size is more than compensated for by less accuracy overall and longer reload times.

But I'd say 1v2 encounters are maybe 10% of my LA fights? Usually if there are going to be 2 people shooting me, I don't engage, because I'll probably die as soon as one guy is dead , never mind how much ammo I have. The majority of my shoot outs are against 1 opponent. If I win, I'll reload if there are no enemies in sight. The TR reload takes longer so there is more time for someone else to pop up around a corner or something and engage you. Granted, as an LA you have good mobility so you can choose where to reload so ti's rarely a factor - primarily comes into play on my engineer.

Let me put it this way: if I had the choice on my VS LA of either

-having 40 round clips, 160 total ammo, increased reload time
-having 30 round clips, 210 total ammo, no increase in reload time

I'd take the second choice every time. I'd also like a better pistol.

Just in case vorpal isn't trolling, I dismissed his post b/c he thought having 10 more ammo in a magazine on carbines/AR's wasn't a big deal, and that he thought that I situationally said low-recoil wasn't a big deal on the Solstice but a great thing on the MSW, when I actually said that the MSW-R and Orion have decent tradeoffs, and I would prefer the lower recoil of the MSW-R. I like lower recoil, hence I am Vanu and not TR, no surprise there. And you would have a tough time arguing the MSW-R is WORSE than the Orion.

And remember guys, recoil can be compensated for, dps can't.

GENERALLY VS guns are middle of the road b/w the TR and NC. They don't have high bullet damage like the NC and their RoF isn't generally as high as the TR's, instead, what they have is accuracy while moving and low recoil.

I said generally, there are exceptions like the Serpent who has high RoF and low recoil, but it pays for it with a 4 second reload and the slowest bullet velocity of any carbine.

Some things can't really be measured with statistics. You need to play and understand the game.

In the ***, you can have the absolute best combine numbers - run the fastest 40 yard dash, highest vertical jump, biggest hands, amazing bench press... but if you can't perform in games, you choke under pressure, etc. none of that matters.

In WoW, Will of the Forsaken had a similar discussion.

"But Dulu, Will of the Forsaken is the same as the Dwarves "Iron Skin" in terms of cooldown, and number of abilities it impacts!"

Yeah, that may be true. But. if you play the game and have an understanding of it, you'll realize that Will of the Forsaken is superior in practical terms. And that's what matters.

The Vanu weaponry, is simply better in practical application than NC weaponry. The Trac-5 and T9 Carv I'd argue are also much superior to their NC counterparts.

Erm.... Well, I feel like I've had this discussion before!

Anyways, Vanu actually DO have superior guns.... For quick skirmishes.

If a Vanu has to stand and fight with multiple clips, however, our guns (Generally, not ALWAYS, but generally) start falling off in damage compared to the other two factions, sometimes significantly more so.

For example, the fact that the Orion has only HALF the ammo capacity of the other two factions means that it will do around HALF the damage of the NC and TR LMG's by the time the NC empties his first mag (12 seconds, in this case) Yeah, the NC probably wont hit much during that time, so if we're nice and assume he misses half his shots, he gets put around the VS as well, but the TR..... They don't have that massive recoil/CoF (In the case of the LMG's they're nearly identical to the Vanu!). (As a side note, our Carbines only have 10 fewer shots, but that still adds up pretty fast due to the low-ammo nature of carbines)

Anyways, point being, reload times and extended encounters should be taken into account when deciding gun balance, since there's a lot more to the game than "see random guy, shoot for about 2 seconds until someone dies, go find other guy" thing

EDIT: This can be felt when you play the factions as well.... My TR dude felt godly during those extended siege pushes, when I spent less than half the time reloading over my Vanu counterpart!

Exactly there are the "paper" numbers then there is how it applies and works in game. I would rather win a fight and have to reload then die with 50 rounds left in my mag.

Lol at you thinking that the TRAC is better, in a 1v1 if you truly need 40 bullets to down someone you really, really need to improve and aim the head, those 10 bullets are only good to drop another opponents popping out but switching to your pistol does the same job really