[Suggestion] Turn the ESF into two vehicles: Jet and helicopter.

I posted this idea in the idea section on PSU.

I think this is something that could definitely up the appeal of Planetside. The current empire specific fighters are basically a combination of a hovercraft and a jet. As a result of this, the dogfights are not so much about hectic chases across the continents of Auraxis, as they are about pulling off physically impossible maneuvers to get behind your enemy. It makes the whole ESF experience kind of bland. The combination of being able to both hover and then boosting away almost immediately at any sign of trouble is making the whole existence of ESFs seem kind of awkward. Their extreme versatility do not fit in well with the gameplay.

The jet is supposed to be a VTOL, not a hybrid. It should be more along the lines of the F35 in BF3; able to take-off and land without a runway, but only really viable when it has got its thrusters pointing backward. It should primarily fill the role of A2A-combat, but a skilled pilot should of course be able to come in for a strafing run - this would require more skill and more teamwork with people on the ground to make viable.

Split the ESF into two vehicles. Because it would bring more variety to the air-scence, and it would be so much easier to balance! Instead of have what you have now, have a jet and a helicopter. Naturally, the helicopter would be able to hover like the ESFs do now, but it would not have the same option of boosting away out of trouble. Instead a helicopter pilot would have to carefully pick his/her engagements, and use the environment to his/her advantage. This relatively restricted aircraft, would also be more incentivized to stay near friendly ground troops for protection, because it's not as viable as a lonewolf.

They can't even get oen right and you want 2?

+1

ESF's are supposed to be fighter jets, well at least thats what I thought when I first started playing.

I imagined high speed strafing runs attacking enemy tank convoys and high speed dogfights. However, what you get is more like a helicopter duel. Speed does not matter when 1 ESF is versing another, how slow and tight you turn does though. Which doesn't make sense considering the ESF's are capable of high speeds.

ESF duels should be high speed high adreniline battles, not turning on a dime going 70 km/h so you can out turn your opponent.

Helicopters ?
Helicopters, really ?

I've seen a ****ton of bad ideas, but this one is the worst.

No man, it's sci-fi and the balance is okay.

Perhaps not helicopters, but in the current state the ESF's may as well be helicopters the way they hover and how slow paced ESF duels are.

We had 2 common pool single-player-planes in PS1. Every empire had a Mossie (A2A) and a Reaver (A2G). I can only say that it worked well for 10 years. Maybe merging everything in PS2 to keep things simple wasn't that good of an idea after all.

I guess you could say that I would like to see the ESFs sped up, and a new aircraft that is slowed down. And yeah, I don't want to see actual helicopters, but some form of futuristic hovercraft.

^
This
Also: Pulling of these maneuvers is what separates skilled pilots from noobs. I know this because skilled pilots have no problem shooting me down. This is good. Skill should always be rewarded.

There's a reason that there are several different types of rocket launchers. If SOE had been insistent on having dumb-fire, ground-lock and air-lock all crammed into one rocket launcher, it would've been difficult to balance. By splitting them into different weapons it made them easier to balance. Same goes for the ESF.

It's an interesting idea. I've been thinking about something similar but perhaps less drastic, namely to have the loadout of the ESF actually change the flight performances.

Equipping rocket pods would restrict the positions of the thrusters so that they cannot point completely backwards, turning the ESF into more of a attack helicopter like craft than a VTOL fighter. The problem would be how to balance it with the current airframes and the flight model.

It would mean that if you want to lolpod infantry you would be more vulnerable to enemy ESF that are equipped for dogfighting.

Completely remove the ESF's ability to hover and it'll basically become a jet.
Create a new craft that only has vertical thrust (the way a helicopter does) and make it more ground attack oriented.

Then you could make the "jet ESFs" resistant to ground fire since they'd mostly do A2A and make "helicopter ESFs" vulnerable to ground fire since they'd mostly be A2G. That way A2A ESFs don't get f***d by AA designed to kill A2G ESFs.

And would those "helicopers" be 2 seaters then?

I have suggested this before. split em in 2, have the ASF (air superiority fighter) be smaller more fragile, and faster, remove the A2G focused weapons (TR and VS aI noseguns and everyones rocket pods, NC can keep thers as it used for AA not AI in game anyway), and replace them with different A2A flavor weapons. The other being a CAS (close air suport) craft would be tougher, slower, and fly like a heliocopter (mouse yaw, strafing, etc). It obvously wouldnt BE a heliocopter but it would fly like one. It would get the AI nosegunes (except the NC who would need a new AI nose gun) and the rocket pods.

You could likely keep the Reaver model for the CAS and make a new model for the ASF, while VS and TR get new models for the CAS and keep the old models for the ASF.

ASF missile pods are replaced with A2A dumbfire missiles, that are fast and proximity detonated near aircraft and have a good explosion damage, but do not detonate at all on contact with lowish direct damage. Not sure what to replace the PPA and banshee with, maybe a flak styled gun (easier to aim with but less powerfull than the default or AA rotary).

The CAS would get the rocket pods, PPA, and banshee, and the NC gaining some new AI explosive gun. Default gun would be similar to the ASFs (aka the current ESF default). And an Anti-vehicle canons, low round count and fire rate, high per shot damage, slowish projectile. Default secondary being "gun hardpoints" which visualy mounts 3 of the nose gun, though the wing mounted ones fire much slower for a result of about 50% more dps (aka front gun fire, front gun+right gun fires, front gun fires, frong gun + left gun fires, repeat). Then of course the current rocket pods, and then either some gravity bombs, or A2G lock on missiles for the third secondary choice.

Due to the RADICAL nature of such a change, players would get the option to convert any of their cert options on the ESF to either the ASF or CAS versions.

I wouldn't want to remove it, it's just that right now it's not a VTOL (Vertical take-off and landing) aircraft; the whole vertical thrust plays a huge part in dogfights and it enables it to hover, making it ridiculously deadly in terms of A2G, and there is little ground forces can do against a fairly skilled pilot. What they need to do is make the transition between jet and hover-mode much slower, and the hover-mode much more unstable - but it should still be able to land and take-off vertically.

Exactly! You've just shown a perfectly valid example of how, when you have two different vehicles, the whole balance-issue becomes much easier to deal with.

I honestly don't see why not. I can see why the current ESFs only have one seat: they're too fast for it to make any sense But yeah, since PS2 is such a teamwork intensive game, I think it would make sense for it to be.

As much as I hate Aerial Spam, this idea is not really a good one.

Reasons - Current maps not designed for the 'jet' style aircraft. No 'landing' strips, so you still need the VTOL aspect on the jets which still make them hover and not really solve the problem.

The defined 'helicopter' or 'CAS' support is, basically, the Liberator, except with one man. So again, not really going to happen.

Or maybe creating two flight modes, Hover and Jet.

You NEED hover to be able to land with aircraft in this game. However, if you make the transition slow enough, it could work. But I hardly see this as the n°1 problem though.

Yeah, I thought about it aswell, I think it's pretty sound idea.
Of course not actual helicopters, but some hover-based attack aerial vehicle that requires crew of 2 people to operate effectively. Something along the lines of actual modern helicopters like Apache or Russian Ka-52. That thing is easy to balance - a lot more then current multi-role ESF or a Lib. Something in between these two.

i would just make the helicopter a whole new vehicle...

having high tech heli's in the game would be badass.