More and more I realize it's Pay2Win

I am not sure if you're looking for respect, or just to show-off. If you aren't then well I need to say this.. Not everyone spends the exact same amount of time as you on this game, and not everyone has the same skill.. I am not saying you're good I am not saying you're bad but certs are guaranteed. you can have a KDR of .0000001 and still gain solid certs.

Yeah, I was a little stupid I didn't explain that I am on a populated server but I'd imagine on small servers, having essential balance-based weapons AA, AG,AI isn't as important. I've seen squad's of ESF's/Tank's and they've never gave me the feeling of "OP" Untill..... I've seen a 20,30,40 tank column attacking zurvan or other territories around the Crown... Then you begin to ask yourself... How do I counter this? YOu obviously need big aoe, a lot of dmg, a lot of players, a lot of effort and cooperation. How do you obtain this? a lot of these are possible just because of the easy access to the base... however 1 thing stands out.. Weaponry.. .YOu may have 2,3,4 allied platoons in the area vs'ing an enemy platoon of 2,3,or 4 and a tank column 20-40 even though there maybe roughly the same amount of people on both sides.. It's not balanced because people don't have the right equipment. Maybe they put too much into AA and not AG so they're useless for example. Most of the weaponry isn't multi-purpose. So you buy AG 99% of the time that weapon is useless for shooting air. Default weaponry doesn't do squat even with 2,3,4 platoons of max's with the default falcon(NC's anti-vehicle max weapon) , or 20 platoons of allied ESF planes... if they're stock/default they're useless... Well unless you kamikaze

I will admit the cert gain feels pretty terrible when you first start playing simply because you don't know how to earn certs. Once you understand how things usually work its easy for you to determine where you can get the most certs.

Ideally though, you won't have to put that much effort into finding certs. Its fine if they have a grind system, but they need to reward you for doing more things as opposed to the few activities that actually rake in significant amounts of certs.

Its so not pay to win. I would win if it was. I can unlock a sideways upgrade early. Or a sidegrade really. Then I'm pretty much screwed if I cant twitch faster than the next guy.

Nothing in the above post has anything to do with a game being pay 2 win.

You act as if you can't unlock weapons with certs.

Look guy, you're basing your whole post on the assumption that I'm on a low populated server. Once again making things up to suit you whine, just like you do when you make up your own definition for things.

FYI I am on Miller, the EU server that was still queuing a week or so ago and regularly has high pop during peak time.

Infantry vs. tank balance does not make a game pay 2 win.

I agree that vehicles have too much of an effect on base battles. I think vehicles should be for the fights between bases - and I've had some brilliant fights like that.

But how much of the game has infantry at a disadvantage to vehicles also does not make a game pay 2 win.

7 dollars OH NOES!!!!!! get a job.

Ok, fair enough. However when you take a base isn't that qualified as winning? You're fighting an enemy, infantry,tanks, air. You're beating them therefor you're winning, and they're losing. If you push an enemy to warpgate you're probably winning or if you aren't winning are you losing? if it's not any of those what is it?

For 1. You need to invest insane amount of hours to unlock these 1k weapons, some addon's to the weapon cost, 30,100,500 certs extra just for these addons, hear me out now... I am lvl 48 almost 49 I have around 11k certs... total 200+ hours invested into this game... That's 11 1k weapons. I don't even have certs right now because I invest into armor, addons for weapons, etc... (I Haven't even spent 1k certs for the max level'd i.e. 25% health armor yet) So I couldn't imagine anyone who plays planetside to ACTUALLY spend 200 hours of constant grinding for just 11 weapons, no add-on's no armor, no nothing just weapons. Some people takes weeks to farm these 1k certs bro of constant playing(There are people with SPH of 5k,10k even during double xp) Once this double xp is gone...LOL

That being for the most expensive weapon, when neither SC nor the weapon are on sale.

You can easily get it down to 2-3 dollars.

7 dollars, nah not a problem. 7 dollars for a single-purpose weapon? Problem. 7 dollars for burster, 7 dollars for falcon, 7 dollars for rocket pods, 14 dollars for hacksaw's, Oh you want tank primary weapon and second weapon? another 14 dollars... It adds up just because you pay a membership of 15 dollars a month doesn't mean you payed 15 dollars for 1 whole year. That's 15 dollars times 12. You see where I am going with this? things add up. Oh what you rather grind? OK 1k certs for burster, 2k for falcon, 3k for rocket pods, 5k for hacksaws oh you want extended mags ? OK 6k certs. By the time you're lvl 30 or so you should have around 6k certs. Do you want to grind level 30 just to buy those? Not including armor for the vehicles, or armor for your infantry or add-ons to weapons?

Calm down, SOE gets back from their 2 weeks vacation tomorrow. We'll get a good idea of how they will tweak & balance soon. This game is by far not pay 2 win, because I paid for all the anti air weapons you could get ingame, and they are still not effective. I paid, I didn't win. Now a pilot with gunners, they paid much less money for what they need to equip with, and they could rack up over 7,000 kills in less than a week as that BR100 guy bragged. They paid less, they won.

It's a balance issue, don't confuse balance issues with money. The mere fact that I paid more and they (pilots) paid less, and they gain more xp & certs, shows you there really isn't anything mischievous about it. The only thing whacked is the air vs ground balance, that's all.

OP has a strong point, random flamer is pay2balance. If you don't buy something it will take you a very long time to get cert upgrades killing infantry and getting wrecked by vehicles. Once you get enough certs you then have to carefully decide if you want to get air-DETERRENT, or anti-vehicle. The outcry for air being overpowered stems from a few people being able to keep air at bay, while the majority of the team is just wheat in the farm.

read his post again he said pay2balance not pay2win. that's the whole issue of this thread.

Why are you asking what winning is when it has no relation to the discussion at hand? Pay 2 win is not paying money for an increased chance of winning, so what winning is is a completely moot point.

Pay 2 win is where paying customers have access to a +12 rifle of smiting that froob players cannot get. It's where you are required to pay in order to get the items you need to be competitive.

That does not apply here. Here you get certs for almost everything you do (Gal pilot and AA are fairly unrewarding roles), including passive cert gain while logged off.

11 weapons? Really? Which 11 weapons do you feel are "required"?

You do not need to be able to do everything in a team game.

I am level 48, almost 49 with about 11k certs total to my name... I barely have any certs on me and I've only bought 1 1k weapon, the rest were all used for add-ons to weapons, armor, and other misc stuff. Can you imagine playing 200+ hours for just 11 1k weapons?(This is not including add-ons to weapons,armor etc... just 11 1k weapons)

Like I told you I am assuming, because of the way you respond and you say you're on a populated server but you can say that AA rockets > flak? If a pilot has bought flares ask them what is scarier Flak or AA rockets? Go ask em.Then how can you say that AA rockets > Flak? 1,500,000,000,000 HA's could lock on rocket you if you click F they're useless... What they going to do pull out their LMG and shoot at you? Now try to say the same for AA maxes... You can't even hover if there are AA maxes in the area... You say you're a pilot but you haven't learned something like that already?

Making up my own definition? when you're pushing bases, beating the enemy, pushing them to warpgate.. Doesn't that sound like you're ... winning? or is that losing? Maybe you're just so intelligent that I mixed the meaning of losing and winning. Hey the dictionary, wiki, google, and my elementary school teachers are all liars Idk what's going on anymore... You see how you assumed that I was saying P2W as YOUR definition of P2W? Do you believe you're the smartest person in the universe that your word,your thinking is law and everything that doesn't fit your logic is irrelevant?

I say Pay2Win because to essentially "win" bases, it's very very complicating to win them by default weaponry, you need to invest time or money. It's a team work thing you as a single AA max is nothing, you need multiple AA maxes. That's 7 dollars their, 7 more dollars their. Everybody need's to invest, either it's extremely long grind hours, or money. I'd also really like to know if someone on the forums has spent 0 dollars is level 40+ or around there... Because I don't know about you guys but I felt forced into buying SC. I think everybody feels somewhat forced. If you feel relief if you feel happy after buying SC. That's wrong... Just to relieve yourself of the grind... YOu know that 1k certs is overwhelming to think about grinding that.You sir bought SC, I bought SC, and majority of the players that play this game WILL BUY SC, not because they want to, but to relieve theirself of the overwhelming feeling of the 1k cert grind

So using your logic PS2 is not free 2 play?

Because, electricity costs. My PC cost money. I pay for my phone line and I pay my ISP for my internet connection.

Therefore, as any dictionary will tell you, it's not free.


You are looking at the meanings of the words "pay", "to" and "win" and thinking that what the words mean is the definition of the term.

That's not how the world works. My xbox is not actually an X shaped box. My clothes horse is not actually a horse made of clothes. My electric shower does not spray electricity over me.

And "pay 2 win" does not mean "paying money to win".

:edit:

I also noted a few more things that you made up to support your argument:

I said I'm a pilot? I did not.
I said HA rockets > flak? I did not, see my signature for my opinion of GtA rockets.

And, of course, claiming to speak for the majority.

Yes that's YOUR Definition of P2W, you're looking at it VERY black and white.. many things in life are colorful. You need to think deep to read deep. You think low you read slow. Put this into perspective if no one bought any weapons, no armor. etc, no tank weapons. etc etc etc.... Tank's would rule their default weaponry is crazy. You need rocket pods to handle them or hover frames to allow yourself to be accurate with the primary weapon... Many of these things need to be bought, either with extraordinary amounts of time or with cash. That's how I am refering this game to P2W it's the fact that if you want to have a big impact on battle you need to invest a lot.. you don't just spend 1k certs for a burster.. then try to kill tanks or infantry with it.. people will just laugh at you... YOu don't buy a falcon(anti tank max weapon) and go and shoot air with it... These are all 1k cert weapons... are you really going to spend 20,30,40,50,60+ hours farming for a single purpose weapon? Oh wait but now there's air... so I g2 buy a burster or wait i have a burster so now I need a falcon , oh no problem I'll just invest another 1,2,3 more days worth of grinding to pay for it.. NO you invest cash!

I am a numb skull, you're a numb skull this isn't going to go anywhere your logic is law my logic is law this won't go anywhere. Any message I am trying to send to you isn't being comprehended so would you just leave my thread please?

Claiming to speak for the majority? It's so obvious that many people spend SC if you know more than me tell me. Where's your proof that the majority AREN'T buying SC huh? You so intelligent bro wheres your facts to counter act my facts? you don't just state your opinion and your opinion, logic and everything you say is law. If I say it is and you say it isn't. Then counter act my logic with facts... Shut me down completely. Do it.

If you can prove that 51% of the players on PS2 DO NOT BUY SC I Will leave this thread, this game, this forum and never play another computer game again. That's how confident I am that the majority of players buy SC. Far more than 51% will buy. You don't think so ? your logic your facts are law? You attack me on every point I make however you have 0 proof that anything I am saying is wrong. You're just challenging me.


Just a facts of life. Just because a person has a job, money, is independent does not make them mature, it does not make them smarter than anybody else. It doesn't make them important in life.

Why don't you two just get it over with and have the wedding in Vegas ASAP.

That statement is not true, as Smed already gave the statistics. Only 10% of the playerbase is paying to play this game, 90% do not pay a dime. Majority of the players in this game do not and will not pay money. And the fact that many default weapons are actually preferred in this game for many factions. To say default weapons do not win base captures is false.

Again I say air superiority is a balance issue, no amount of money is going to make ground forces "win" against air. I bought the AA weapons, and the only ONE AA that's decent is the burster for the AA MAX which is good at shooting down ESF but barely scratch Liberators.

Another fact is that most of us waste a lot of certs on things that we either end up not using, or don't need, or don't work well. I've bought many rocket lauchers for my HA, guess which one I keep on my character by default these days? The dumbfire one, because anti air launcher sucks really really bad, it's not worth it. I've also bought many attachments to my weapons which out of maybe 5 attachments that I've tried, I only ever use one in the end and ignore the rest.

I would suspect a lot of people waste a lot of certs too, and it's not that it takes all that many certs to do well in the game, it's simply that it often takes that many certs in order for people to try out different addons and attachments in the game. Next time take a look at all the stuff you've spent your certs on and think just how many of these upgrades you actually do use on a regular basis, and how many actually work well. You'll realize you probably wasted a lot of certs too. So you talking about having so many certs yet so little is really a personal issue, I have that issue too, but I spent the certs to try things out because certs were easy to obtain. I never had issues getting certs before double exp, certs roll in like crazy during double exp with boosters. You are exaggerating a bit which I think your true problems are you really wanted to rant about air and other op'ed items in the game.

This game is far from pay 2 win.