[Suggestion] Jammer Grenades - The Missing Link

Problem in-game:

Tanks and aircraft (vehicles in general) are very powerful in the field. A single infantry vs. a single tank or aircraft is almost guaranteed death, even in the short amount of time it takes to run from one building to another. Tank cannons are one-shot-one-kill (or two for a Prowler, but still a single volley). Rocket pods are used in abundance. Vehicles are susceptible to being focused down by a coordinated group of infantry, but surprise is a key element here - if the vehicles knew the infantry group were there, they would still probably win the engagement.

However, only a few infantry weapons can damage MBTs - rocket launchers, the AV MAX weapon, C4, mines, AV grenades. Mines, C4, and AV grenades are more useful in a defensive capacity. If you really want to get out in the field and take down some tanks, you bring a group of AV-equipped Heavy Assault class soldiers with MAX support. That's two classes out of six with reliable AV weaponry - and only really effective when there are a coordinated group of them.

That means if you come across a tank while classed as an Infiltrator, Engineer, Medic, or Light Assault, you're out of luck. A couple of seconds in the open and the tank or aircraft will kill you almost instantly - and there isn't anything you can do about it.

Solution:

A "Jammer" grenade, or EMP grenade, that specifically locks down vehicle weapon systems for a short amount of time. We already have EMP grenades in-game that clear deployables and mess with shields/HUDs. However, this can only be used by the Infiltrator.

What I suggest is an additional grenade usable by any class (PS1 veterans remember this) that discharges an EMP on surrounding vehicles, causing their weapons to lock for around 10-15 seconds. The grenade will be purchasable with certs and then for X infantry resources per grenade, just like other infantry consumables. Tired of being camped in a spawn room? Throw out an EMP and rush the tanks with AV weapons. Did you get caught in some rocks with a tank between you and the door? Throw an EMP and dash to safety. Do you want to take on that armor zerg or at least make them retreat? EMP them and watch them run.

Each infantry can still only carry a couple of these grenades, and they would be taking up the space of frags, healing, revive, flashbang, concussion, or AV grenades, keeping the balance in check. Not everyone is going to want to sacrifice their other grenade for a Jammer, but some will - and organized teams will be able to use this to combat a large tank zerg without having to have another large tank zerg.

Vehicles have an additional, extremely deadly weapon infantry do not have - bumpers. If a lone infantry gets caught by a tank in the middle of an open area and manages to get a Jammer grenade onto the tank, it doesn't matter, the tank is just going to roadkill the guy or wait until the EMP wears off and shoot him anyway. This brings more power to infantry so they are not constantly slaughtered in spawn room doors or closed off areas where a tank is already on-station. It brings more complexity to the vehicle vs. infantry game and fixes some of the constant "World of Tanks, Pilotside" experiences many players are having.

Please take this into consideration.

---robocpf1

I'm generally not a fan of grenades/c4 but...I like this idea

I think it should be restricted to infiltrators, light assault medics and engies tho I don't think it should to available to max's or HA

I agree whole heartedly, and even would make it a strong suggestion.. The A2G rocket pods are so OP right now, that any infantry on the ground are done quickly, and you are seeing more and more aircraft of all empires, just sitting there and camping them, because they have nothing to fear, as AA is a joke. Put them on a timer if its an EMP, or make it so they can carry only limited amounts of jammer grenades, like there is for everything else.

There already is a Stun Grenade. I was freaking out the other night. Thought my mouse was messed up but it was just stun grenades. So i am guessing that there will soon be an option for jammers.

So basically, your issue is that heavily armored combat vehicles are overpowered one on one vs. some dude wearing a kevlar vest that's out in the open instead of actually, I don't know, not behaving like a suicidal twit.

And this is a problem how?

And your suggestion to this "problem" is a grenade that all classes can use that locks vehicle weapons for 10-15 seconds. Yet you somehow can't see how this will absolutely cripple vehicle gameplay.

This thread is stupid.

Stop playing badly.

Sounds more like a population issue than a gameplay one.

When TR seem like they have control over all 3 continents... it's easy to ***** that TR are too OP. That goes for any faction.

If it's not population its hackers(lagswtichers)... I think some servers are just screwed. That's the bottom line. Put up with it, ragequit, or reroll... but please quit trying to tweak the entire game to fit your 'special circumstance'

10-15 seconds might have been too much. No, my issue isn't 1v1 overpoweredness, the tank is SUPPOSED to win that engagement. It costs more resources. 1v1 if a tank doesn't win, there is an issue.

But infantry should have some stopgap measure. Notice I didn't ask for a grenade that instantly killed vehicles on contact, just one that shorts out their weapons for a few seconds. That would allow, for instance, a group of infantry to be able to push out of a chokepoint defended by a tank (or several tanks), as it can be difficult to stop a tank or aircraft from camping a spawn area.

A grenade is a short range weapon - if the tank sees you and you're outside the range you can throw your grenade, you're dead, as you should be. If you're on a cliff or have the high ground, you can kill the tank fairly easily with long-range AV rockets because the tank can't hit you.

But close range, infantry can do nothing. It isn't about being able to 1v1 a tank, it's about being able to survive a 1v1, survive a camp situation, or survive an encounter with a tank when you don't have half a dozen dedicated AV users. An infantry with a Jammer is nothing to worry about if you're any distance away - but if you're in a more urban area like a facility, or in a forest, tanks shouldn't be able to go unbothered. Since most AV weapons require line of sight, it's either the infantry gets a non-fatal shot on the tank, or the tank looks at the infantry and kills it instantly. There's no middle ground where the infantry can actually survive against a tank if they aren't HA or MAX, THAT is my problem. I spend a lot of time in a tank - if I see a Medic, Engineer, Infiltrator, or Light Assault that I have a shot on, that's a free kill - and I don't think that's fair.

These were in PS1 and worked fine, I don't recall anyone complaining about Jammer Grenades. Why won't they work in PS2?

Furthermore, Luperza (SOE Dev) replied to my tweet earlier, she said the dev team had considered including them but ended up not doing so. When I look at all of the posts about tank spam and air spam and zerging, I thought this would be an interesting, already-tried-and-tested way of dissipating that a little bit and making the game that much more tactical.

They should add it as an under barrel option to the Carbines and Assault Rifles that don't have one right now.

Make it a non-Arc 100 meter range ~800 AV damage 5 second jam. Call it a Nanite Deconstructor or EMP Spike or whatever.

Funny thing is if you chucked one at my Skyguard I wouldn't see much difference.

I won't disagree that there's a lot of problems with zergs. I also don't know that there's any real solution to this.

Part of the problem is that grenades aren't really short range weapons. You can pitch them some pretty absurd distances with fair accuracy once you understand how they fly. Drop it to a 3 second short out and I'd probably be ok with it - that's long enough to break and get to cover, or get a missile off. Otherwise you'll end up with situations where ground vehicles are effectively rendered helpless against infantry.

Anything that removes the ability to fight back has to be taken into consideration for large scale engagements.

I remember them from PS1, for what it's worth, and I really didn't have a problem with them there either. Here... I don't know. The gameplay dynamics between PS2 and PS1 are very different.

Devs wanted more outdoor battle.....Than give us more tools to do so. BRING back the jammer nade!

And that's perfectly fair. Even a few seconds would be an improvement. Or, you could make this another chance to use certs, and be able to passively cert into EMP resistance. As far as grenade-throwing, they could force a distance-detonation - no matter what, when the grenade reaches X meters away, it explodes. But as I said, fair enough, you raise some good points.

The TTKs are so much shorter than in PS1 (in most cases) so I know throwing Jammer grenades into the mix might mess something up - but I figured I'd put forth the suggestion. Better that than join the guys constantly complaining and saying they're leaving and how the game is dead.

I'd be alright with this. I like grenades that don't just kill. I've only had one person ever use the flash grenade against me and he killed me because of it. I almost killed him with blind firing in his direction but it looks like it's useful after all.

LOL I had the same thing start happening to me recently and I was literally on my way to get a new mouse today but I was reading these forums with my morning coffee. Glad I did!

I like the EMP idea and I also agree it shouldn't be available to HA because right now most people play HA and we need things spread out more to other classes to give them a more useful feeling besides repair and heal.

They worked perfectly in PS1 so why would they be overpowered here ???? It takes 4 plus rockets to destroy a tank these days with them all ****** out so there is no way you can fire 4 rockets in a time spam of 10 secs anyway, so your argument aganist them in 1v1 is flawed. It's an excellent survival tool that would give you a few secs to escape. It would also most likely replace your grenade so we would have less nade spam then your have the choice whenever to carry one or not.

#1 +1. Please, we need EMP grenades.

Also, take a look on this post for more anticamp vehiclespawn solutions: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/gameplay-improvement-suggestion.68154/

lol shut up and try to be constructive you troll.

To be quite honest, I think the only class that needs an additional AT option is the Engineer.

Allow them to set up a rocket turret with piercing ammo.
Usable by teammates, repairable by Engineer.
Has a kinetic shield that will absorb 1-2 direct rockets(or a lightning's barrage/full rocket pod barrage) before going down for 30 seconds(engineer can speed it up to 15 sec), but has no shield to stop ordinary small-arms fire, and slow rotation speed makes it harder to use vs close, fast moving infantry.

It does no splash damage so ineffective unless direct hit.
Very long range, very fast missile.

Basically, it's a turret that's meant to be effective vs tanks at long ranges(or hovering aircrafts), but suck vs infantry.


We could also have a turret that fires an instant, low damage continuous energy beam that is specifically designed to cripple air vehicles.
It can't damage a tank, it can't damage infantry, but if you expose an enemy plane long enough to the beam, its health will decrease at a steady rate as long as you can keep the beam directly on it.
It's dangerous to ESFs, but ESFs can avoid it by quickly flying away. Effectively, it'd been an air deterrence. Grants EXP for damage done, kill not required.
Very effective vs ESFs, medium effective vs Libs(but vs Libs you'll most likely have more people shooting it so it balances out.
Has a very mobile base, fast rotation speed, allowing it to cover every single side and angle, fast rotation speed making it good at following fast moving ESFs, ideal for AA.

Beam being the speed of light makes it almost instant, and thus can follow an aircraft as long as the user has a steady mouse hand.


I feel this could breathe new life into the Engineer's turret idea, and make fortifying bases/positions more ideal.

Like the jammers available for the thumper/punisher!
MORE JAMMERS!!!

If done right I wouldn't mind this. It could be interesting if maybe it just shut the vehicle down completely for just a few seconds. I'd rather find it hilarious to see a vehicle stopped dead in its tracks while AV Heavy Assaults surround it. Like a lamb surrounded by wolves.