I know you vehicle people wont like this but, infantry need it.

again you all miss the point I am talking about when game devs aren't doing enough for pop balance incentives. When the enemy has so many players you can't fall back because they have people waiting at each point that you own farming you.

You can't always shoot out all doors there's these things called angles that allow the tank to shout form a sharp angle and not be in line of site while the blast still kills you.

You know I remember a game called Planetside where they persuaded people to fight like geared equipment by making it less effective for tanks to hit infantry. For those of us that are die hard infantry the game is as imbalanced as can be.

Pro tank points:

-You can sit in your heavy armor that takes to many shots for infantry to fight back without a swarm

-You don't actually have to play you sit there with your gun fixed on a point

-Certs are too easy to gain.... I hear people saying 60-200 kill streaks while in vehicles.

Anti infantry points:

-We can't match against armor at all it isn't even close to fair

-Every cert point gained is hard fought.

-gaining certs is slower because we sit on the death screen ninety percent of the time.

-There is no way anyone, or many individual not teamed infantry can say they are getting kill streaks that large that give them exponential xp bonuses for streaks.

-Killing a tank as infantry gives crap for return XP considering the imbalance of the fight... tank vs infantry 1 on 1.

Is this a multi-faceted game or just a vehicle game. If your not going to give incentive to make infantry balanced and have a chance to fight then infantry should just get removed.

They already exist, some bases you can spawn safely, go to the roof, etc. Its trying to defend those little outposts without much buildings/emplacements that is pretty much futile unless you have an army of equal size for an open field battle.

And people don't realize what they're asking for. Safely existing your spawn can be worse... you'll be caught out in the open like sheep for the slaughter instead without even the luxury of running back into the "safe room".

Again this is great if pops are balanced. But when one empire has so many that they are camping places they can't even take yet then it becomes hopeless.

This.

I'll camp a spawn room, but only if it isn't already being camped by a bunch of other people. It's easy farming, but to me it's primary importance is securing the area. There are usually far better places to farm kills if that's my primary goal.

The problem is definitely how spawn rooms are built. People will always find a way to camp them, so the solution is to design them to be more defensible.

in addition to improving spawn rooms, I'd like to see:

Tunnels

Tunnels were terrible in PS1. They presented narrow chokepoints which were often impossible to bypass.

Tunnels would be awesome in PS2. Bypassing tunnels would be as easy as running around outdoors, using any of the multitude of entrances/exits that the buildings already have.

Tunnels would merely provide an option for infantry to get from one building to another without being forced to be vehicle fodder. Camping vehicles would have to be constantly vigilant to not get shot from behind from all of the plethora of random buildings in the area.

Tunnels that you have to go through = bad

Tunnels as an alternative route = good

I think you have the name at the end of your post pointed in the wrong direction. When I see this kind of imbalance I either sit in gate till you guys are bored or log off. Thus ending the game.

I do understand your point, but I'm arguing against the idea that spawn camping and losing battles because of it leads to pop decrease. I know there's this fear/hate combo against casual players here, and in every other game for that matter, but as a very casual (no outfit, no fixed squad, basically I'm a zerg) I can assure you that spawn camping is not that big of an issue.
Spawn camping comes from the olden days of FPS when there were fixed locations for team deathmatch where the winning team could run up to the spawn points of the opponent and splash them to hell until the game was over. The Battlefield series still has this problem because one team can lose every point except the starting base, which means that to ensure victory, the team with the edge in the fight will spawn **** the starting location with helis and jets. However in Planetside 2 you have always the possibility to a) spawn at your warpgate and get a vehicle or aircraft or b) spawn at the neighboring tiles and get a sunderer or something else. Unlike in BF3 for example, you can always spawn somwhere relatively safe, that's the difference. And to be honest, if people don't understand this then they won't enjoy the game even if there will be some kind of punishment for spawn camping. And that's coming from a casual.

I do agree that the steamroll effect is a problem, together with the fact that at the moment nobody seems to care who wins because Vanu will take over everything during the night shift anyway (at least on Lithcorp), but that isn't the result of spawn camping.

Sounds like a total lack of organization - you're making excuses for being outnumbered - ie. you've lost the fight already there. You've obviously never seen a whole tank zerg get blown to bits by some well handled HA infantry before? Infantry do have a fighting chance, you just have to use them right. That means picking and choosing your fights, plus if you're outnumbered, you can't expect to hold on to everything. Gather up the small numbers into one group, and pick off the attackers one rush group at a time.

Seriously, dumb strategy and lack of organization is not a balance issue. Its definitely one of leadership and teamwork though.

I hate being spawn camped, but if you're down to ONE spawn at ANY base (even ones with multiple spawns) and vehicles are camping the doors you've lost that base. I don't think that SOE is going to really DO anything about it because its the truth. But hey, if people want to run through the meat grinder instead of regrouping and counterattacking properly, that's fine.

Even if they added exits in the roof, people would then complain about liberators. Add a tunnel leading to the SCU and people would complain about turret camping. It's never ending.

This would be a logical thing except the bad spawn room design of the small outposts around your gate. They are little 12x12 boxes which are exploitable again.

By the way Sony in case you missed the reports. People are abusing double stacked prox mines with clamores that has such a large blast radius it kills anyone in these miniature spawn rooms.

You understand that cert gain has nothing at all to do with KDR, and everything to do with KPM? The fastest way to get certs is to attack or defend a base (as infantry) that has tons of people at it. Yes, you'll die a lot, but you'll also rake in the xp. Way more xp than you can earn in a tank in the same amount of time.

It's true that upon leaving biolab and tech plant spawn rooms you cannot be hit directly by heavy weapons. Amp station spawns are vulnerable, however. Still, it was, as you said, mainly the smaller spawns I'm thinking about. I posted on this ages ago. From a psychological perspective, it would be much better to be able to leave the spawn and grav lift up to the top of a covered building where you at least got a chance to see how many tanks/infantry are camping you. After that, redeploying would not be so difficult imo.

Not that this is a big deal for me anyway, I've got my rule of thumb and if I need to, I move on and don't get angry any more. I feel I enjoy the game much more thanks to this attitude.

I agree with this for the most part, but I think it's important to point out a significant difference with respect to Amp Stations. If the attackers manage to get a vehicle shield down, once their vehicles hit the courtyard they are able to almost completely cut off anyone spawning from reinforcing the defense of the central building, and it doesn't take many vehicles to do this. The only way to combat this is to have an AMS Sunderer parked in the central vehicle bay from which defenders can respawn and continue defense.

Since this is an absolute requirement to any effective defense of an Amp Station, I strongly believe that a protected tunnel or teleporter should be added to allow movement between the spawn room and vehicle bay. Attacking vehicles can still support their troops in assaulting the other shield generators, at which point the vehicle bay would become vulnerable, but at least it removes the absolute binary element of the outer shield generators.

So yes, I agree that once a defending forced is pushed back to their spawn room, that they have lost the fight. However, I also believe that there are certain base layouts which allow attackers far too easy access to cut off reinforcements from the spawn room and can end a possible defense prematurely.

Sorry mate, but I disagree and I am no vehicle lover, too. Just bring your vehicle/aircraft force and fix the problem (use faction/order chat or whatever). Don't just stand there and die like many others at doors. When you see on map that you are surrounded by a lot of enemy vehicles why try to get farmed ? You die, you spawn in a better position, not in the same and you don't try to shoot someone out of your door shields since you get constantly farmed. Don't go after brainless zergies even if you want to fight to the last grasp. If the position is serverly compromised better let it go and try to recap it immediately with tools to counter this vehicle zerg. It's even more fun
Again: I am not saying L2P, I am only suggesting a different approach to a situation that can be frustrating sometimes.
You could even just stand in your spawning room and try to shoot something from in there but never go out when you are severly outnumbered...

XLander - just delete your character and pick a better server/side to play on. It sounds like you play with utter losers on your side on your server. It won't matter whatever changes the game does - the game is balanced around groups, not single players. You can't one man hold up an entire whole empire! A bad rabble is a bad rabble.

And as they always say - the best defense is a good offense. If all your side is doing is fighting a losing defensive battle, then you're playing it wrong.

P/S - You can't even spawn a tank of your own to fight another tank?

Klyptok and daskleineviech are absolutely right. There is this crazy new thing called "strategy" (also known to some as strategery) that all the cool kids are talking about. If the enemy has broken through your defensive perimeter and are now occupying your base then it's time to mount a counter-attack. Go to the nearest safe vehicle spawner with your friends and come back with some fire support. Those enemy tanks will still be sitting outside the spawn point shooting the other people in your faction that possess less tactical acumen than yourself. But now, thinks to your ability to think outside the spawn point box, you can actually shoot at those bad spawn campers (preferably with a really big gun)!

When you're being farmed by an extremely outmatched pop you can't pull your tanks and whatever because you get no resources to do so.

Klyptok, daskleineviech, and sencho. I can tell your not fighting with a losing pop. you obviously miss the tie to population balance that this has. If you are being pushed back to gate this fast and being farmed by bored people at points they can't even capture yet then it is no longer a game to play.

I am saying that I tried the fall back to three points and at each point I was immediately destroyed. upon arrival. At places that they had no business being. They had no hexes in place. Just so much over population that it allowed them to steam roll an entire empire within minutes.

How they camped us at the fall back outposts was to place 203 tanks around each spawn point at an angle that allows them to be out of sight while using blast radius that instagibs infantry trying to fall back and come out to lead a counter assault.

something else of note that you probably aren't getting due to likely a small outfit is that a very large outfit can engage at this level and destroy the enemy populace with little thought. For example during the time of day that is prime time for my outfit we command 60-200 people... split between infantry and armor. If the enemy pop was disorganized and under popped we have enough people to literally back farm the enemy till they are pushed to gate. The only saving grace is that the outfit I am in doesn't like those kinds of easy mode fights so we go to conts that will be a challenge.

Maybe the devs need to make it so that easy mode players don't get as much incentive. Reduce certs for easy farm or something.

I'm going to tell you this again since you're apparently rather dense - YOU'VE LOST! Your side is simply so outnumbered, you need to just delete your character and pick a better team to play with.

But if you want to really do something instead of whining like a sore loser, organization and waiting for an opportune time will allow you to strike out and recover lost territory... no one camps 24/7 on any server, so ownership is constantly changing hands. But from all the excuses you're making, your side must be extra terrible and total losers.

Or you can continue whining on the forums instead of learning how to play the game/organizing.

Spawn elsewhere. I find that trying to "farm" in a tank at a spawn door is not efficient. with friendly infantry around it just doesn't work, you do more harm to friendlies.

Spawn elsewhere, regroup and counter-attack BEFORE the defenses can be brought back online.

If your spawn is being camped then you have already lost the base

Let me clarify that so that you understand, since this topic comes up once a day at least.

!!If your spawn is being camped then you have already lost the base!!

It could be camped by 40 infantry sitting there at the doors while you cheesedick shooting through the forcefield to farm mouthbreathers, or it could be camped by 3-4 tanks while 40 infantry sit and watch the show. Either way you lost it. Give up and go somewhere else.

****'em. Better for you to kill them then let them get farmed by people shooting through the forcefield.