So when are you addig anti-air to game?

This really grinds my gears.

Please stick to the facts and leave the hyperbole and FUD at the door.

One Burster and one HA simply cannot destroy groups of ESF's. It is impossible with the current rate of fire, damage per second, time to kill, projectile speed, and ammo carrying capacity of those two classes, for that to be achievable.

This is not a "nerf air" post. Just an appeal from a fellow gamer to stick to the facts and leave the hysteria out of this debate.

Totally impossible, despite the fact I do this every single day I play on Jaeger.

3 seconds of Dual Burster + 1, 3 second lock for Hawk = 1 Dead ESF. Every 3 seconds you can kill an ESF. A group of 4 ESF lasts 12 seconds, even lower if they boost and run out of the zone. If you position properly the ESF can't even retaliate against you, and no, boosting away isn't an effective defense because its extremely easy to lead a boosting spinning ESF. I suggest you reevaluate your capabilities rather than use the lower end of the spectrum to make misinformed decisions.

BTW, might want to lube those gears... they seem a bit rusty.

I've cut out your silliness. There's no place for that in adult debate.

Let's stick to the meat of the argument here. You can only kill an ESF that quickly if it stands still for you and you can make every single shot count with the Burster and the the ESF has no counter measures. For that to happen, not only does it need to be stationery, but it needs to be hovering really close.

In your entirely unrealsitic scenario, 4 ESF's died because they were AFK or LD, not because you were some uber AA dude or that AA is "fine".

Let's stick to facts as best we can please, and think about what really happens in live gameplay conditions, rather than in sterile laboratory tests or vivid imaginations. Your sceario is not indicative of actual live gameplay.

If you believe that your scenario is possible, please post informative and educational video clips of you and a friend killing an ESF every 3 seconds until an entire group is destroyed. That would actually help people to improve their own AA play.


As one final point. For your scenario to even be possible, a third person would need to contribute (an Engineer).

There is AA that beats light fighter 1v1: Dual Burster. Have you tried it?

I don't know about you guys but I have dual burster MAX and I have never been killed by ESF in 1v1 as a MAX. It has always been enemy tank or bunch of infantry.

Problem is nobody plays maxes in this game. Not enough kills, don't get repaired etc. etc.. I don't exactly know why people don't play them. It could be because nobody repairs you and you get stuck with 5% hp left after moment of battle or if its the lack of kills. Reasons why you don't get repaired might be because engineers are pretty much useless in fights so there are none around. I can certainly rack way more kills as light assault solo than I can with MAX or engineer solo.

The only problem I have with AA is the skyguard, the only thing that can keep up with armor column. It is really BAD at taking down aircrafts.

Show me footage killing 4 ESF in 12 seconds in the current version. Until then, I call bs

Uh there was no silliness in this "adult debate" of you stating your unfounded opinion with nothing to back it up meanwhile I do this everyday and can be observed on Jaeger. I constantly hit flying esf spinning, rolling, boosting, and all that. It isn't hard if you have a functioning nervous system and a brain. I think you are stuck at the lower echelon of play personally, but everyone has room for improvement. No, my scenario is possible because I have enough ammo to easily take down the 4 ESF and so does the Heavy, the only time the issue for ammo comes into play is when air has Flares but then the heavy also has increased rocket capacity so it nullifies it. My scenario is indicative of live gameplay because I do it everyday. That's ok though, you can keep up your subpar routine.

Login to Jaeger kid and grab an ESF, see you on the field.

PS Your argument is basically "Nana nana booboo because I can't do it neither can you!" Hence the use of "kid," as an insult. Your facts are also opinions btw.

Definitely will, wire me up 40USD for my time and you will get your footage. Otherwise, take that *** to jaeger and let me eat your XP.

EDIT: Make that 50USD, second semester of college starting and I'd like to buy over 50 cans of tuna so I have something to eat for a while.

I haven't either.

I'm not sure who would come out on top in a toe to toe though if the ESF has rocket pods. Although I very strongly believe that whoever gets the drop should win in a close quarters scrap.

I wish there was more cat and mouse to this part of the game. It was brilliant in PS1. I used to love hunting AA MAXes in a Reaver. I killed so many of them. But I also died a lot as well. Especially to the Burster when I was playing VS or NC.

Air vs AA is actually horrible in this game for several reasons. I hope that can be fixed in the future. It's a whole dimension that is missing and I think the game is poorer for it. Two entire play styles that were great fun have ceased to exist.

Clips please

Remember, unedited footage of you and a friend killing an ESF every 3 seconds until an entire group of them is dead. On a regular basis as well as you appear be saying it's the norm for you.

Or...you could just man up a little and admit that you were over exaggerating just a tiny teensy bit

Rocket pods are not exactly problem for me as a MAX. I can just run inside to take cover if it gets too hot. 1v1 ESF with pods and MAX with dual burster, the MAX wins every time, unless MAX is running around where he can't get inside cover AND the aircraft is making attack runs instead of hovering and reloading.

The deterrent factor of single dual burster MAX is astounding. You take couple shots at ESFs and they run away. Suddenly there are no enemy aircrafts around, apart from high altitude Liberators. I like being useful instead of just farming for kills.

Itt infantry should be the counter, but not locking missiles or flak.

Bad Company 2 AT4 in da howz!

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...lutions-for-aa-bc2s-at4-faster-rockets.51901/

Long post short, add AT4 to heavy infantry, double infantry rocket velocity.

It's in the game. It's just incredibly boring to play and that's not it. You lose out on exp, while your friends are off slaughtering dozens of players and the only reason they are getting the kills is because they aren't being spammed by reavers/scythes/mosquitos.

I spend a reasonable amount of time playing AA max because few others do. It's a frustrating occupation. If there are two AA MAXs and they manage to fire at the same plane, which is both close and slow, they've got a great chance of taking it down. If its close and fast, they've got a mediocre chance as long as there aren't terrain features to provide quick cover. If there is one AA MAX, forget about shooting anything down unless its already damaged or the pilot is an idiot. A solo AA max is effectively a low scoring scarecrow.

When I play HA, I average 6k - 9k XP per hour. When I play AA max, I'm lucky to pull 2k - 3k and get to deal with the added frustration of being completely useless against anything that walks or drives up. I guess if I felt that the faction's air forces were on par, I wouldn't be so put out. But, I often feel like most of the TR pilots are having mosquito races around the warp gate, occasionally suiciding on Gals for variety's sake.

Ok...griping done. Seriously though, it would be nice to have a reason to play AA max beyond the intangibles that come with keeping the zerg from getting rolled. Maybe greater assist rewards or something.

Currently at BR 21, bought both fully speced reaver + duel bursters/skyguard lightning as well as the A30 on various vehicles. What needs changing:

1. A30 massive buff. Give it a ROF + Damage + accuracy + speed of projectile buff.
2. Give all other flak AA accuracy buff as well as a lot faster projectile speeds.
3. Make the Skyguard be able to depress its cannon more, same as the other guns.
4. Aircraft should be able to see the incoming projectiles from flak, currently they are either bugged or something and don't get rendered unless the shooter is in line of sight.

Ground AA is fine I think. It should not be easy to kill aircraft from the ground.
But we need better AA in the aircraft. So they will fight each other most of the time.
Like it actually is in the real world - one must dominate in the sky to win on the ground.

That may be so, a MAX may be effective as a deterrent for an ESF but that doesn't mean rocketpods aren't broken, you can "deter" an ESF all you want but if it brings down tanks as quickly as it does now what's the point, you'll damage it, it'll fly away, repair and come back for another round.


And what if you don't have AA MAXes (which are both expensive since you need a 1000 cert weapon and boring to use since all you can do is shoot at air which might not always be there + using one gives you almost 0 experience since you don't often kill, just wound)? Then you're screwed, ESF counter everything else on the ground, HA AA missiles fly too slowly, the skyguard is a joke and the static AA turrets even more so.

A few things needs to be considered:

• Any increase in AA damage for a single arm burster will radically cause the skies to clear. A single arm burster can bring an ESF to half armor in less than a second. Try increasing the damage and see what happens. Now a two arm burster can tear into you so easy I am yet to see an ESF stand it without being shot down. The key here is that the burster needs to aim. Bring 2 arm bursters and you have clear skies.
• The ESF visibility is greatly hindered. This is a huge factor since every ESF needs to get so close to the ground to get kills. If proper AA is setup then all the ESF can do is fly away. If you increase AA damage then ESF will die before it can see where it's being hit from. This was very common pre AA nerf.
• The afterburner has been reduced greatly even at game release they nerfed it more. When an ESF get a kills it normally has to retreat with reduced armor making it highly vulnerable to any chasing ESF whether it's A2A or just rotary gun. I have seen countless ESF die this way.
• In any given area, I have seen a relatively healthy number of ESF's flying around. I would say an average of 5-8. This is a point made by the Devs after the AA nerf. Buffing AA will drop the number to 1-2 just like pre-nerf.
• AA maxes and skygaurds will have to aim now. Pre-nerf it was basically play with one hand whether sitting in a turret, skygaurd, or AA max.
• A2A works better now and the flare timer has been reduced from 15 seconds to 25 seconds making it impossible for an ESF to come back if you had one ONE infantry with lock on.
• One major factor that many ignore is that for a successful assault and you need a combination of both ground and air. It makes no sense to assume that ground can be completely protected without air support.
• Most of the spam I see is around surrounded bases and spawns. For me, this means that the defenders have lost the initiative and if they are getting spammed it's because the assault failed. I don'r see anyone complaining as to why their spawns are also being spammed by tanks. A tank can kill you in one shot while an ESF with rockets will have to spend seconds firing rockets on you.
• There is a lack in AA due to people not certing it enough. It is not mature to ask for buff and nerfs until everybody buy stuff.
• Try to bring two skygaurds to a tank column and see what happen to ESFs. Pre-nerf one skygaurd could clear the sky.
• Damage degradation has been added to AA weapons to give ESFs the chance to run away since they can't see you till you get too close. So for those firing on the first hint of seeing an ESF this is a good hint for you: Wait till it gets close.

Agreed, but with some trepidation.

Any direct increase to AA effectiveness is problematic. We saw the pendulum swing both ways for the AA and Air relationship in beta.

And that's what it really is, Air and AA are in a relationship, practically two sides of the same coin. If either side doesn't work, neither side really exists. For AA to be effective, there must be Air for it to fight, and thus AA will have to put up with Air also being effective.

As the data comes in from the server stat tracking, and as new gameplay mechanics get implemented from the probably overworked developers, we'll start seeing very small tweaks that will likely involve a lot more of tertiary systems and mechanics.

Your post is full of hyperbole.

"One armed burster max will bring down a ESF to half armor in less than a second"

Might as well have stopped reading there. What alternate reality are you playing in?

Been around since this game had only 300 players. I know what I'm talking about.