Infiltrators - when will you balance them?

What I find the funniest, is people complaining to players despite seeing themselves as far better than them yet the moment they die to something they're the quickest to hop on a forum and complain/whine/call for nerfs about like entitled children.

Why improve, when you can just nerf the competition, right? So much more effective.

If those players weren't a) better with the mechanics than those defending said mechanics, and b) better with those mechanics than they are with other similar mechanics, then sure you'd have some ground to stand on with that rhetoric.

Instead, what we have is a near exact 'real' world example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Again:

What I find the funniest, is people complaining to players despite seeing themselves as far better than them yet the moment they die to something they're the quickest to hop on a forum and complain/whine/call for nerfs about like entitled children.

I'm glad you're finally coming to terms with it as the perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Now comes the hardest part for you: Less pew pew on the forums and more pew pew in Planetside.

You'll be killing infils in no time!

(You)
https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=sumowning


In the studies reported on in their paper “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments” (1999), Dunning and Kruger tested the abilities of four groups of young adults in three domains: humour, logic (reasoning), and grammar. The results supported their predictions that, as compared with their more competent peers, “incompetent individuals…will dramatically overestimate their ability and performance relative to objective criteria”; that they “will be less able…to recognize competence when they see it” (whether their own or someone else’s); that they “will be less able…to gain insight into their true level of performance” by comparing their own performance with that of others; and, paradoxically, that they can improve their ability to recognize their own incompetence by becoming more competent, “thus providing them[selves] the metacognitive skills necessary to be able to realize that they have performed poorly.”

There he goes! Somehow overestimating himself, thinking he's better because posting FISU matters somehow?
We've gone full circle! You can even copy paste now, I am proud of you!

(You) https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=trash

I like how that's your default, like it holds any value and literally just further proves my point.
You really are the perfect example of your own little copy-paste, I relish in the irony.

Anyway, feel free to keep thinking you're better, keep thinking you shouldn't improve, keep complaining as well.
Worked out pretty well so far for you, hasn't it?

This amount of deflection and projection can't be healthy.

"Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence...greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general."

(You) https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=sumowning
(My alt TR) https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=tattersaile

ugh, this crap again. This is probably the fifth thread about this I have seen in the past week. Look, all this stat work, tweaking cloak times, and all the other Einstein level calculation's could be skipped it they just added the ability for thermals to pick up infiltrators. If would solve SMG cloakers, it would solve sniper cloakers, and it would be available to everyone for just 30 certs...

And to compensate, the devs can give the infiltrators more sabotage items such as vehicle EMP charges, generator shutdown charges, EMP generators that shut down shields to anyone who passes them, and other such place-able items that would reward infiltrators for entering bases ahead of the main force...as infiltrators literally are intended to do by description.

I know, it's getting really old at this point. Yet they still don't seem to get the message.

I actually got some interesting information at some point, which revolves around cloak visibility and user setups. Believe it was Demigan who brought it up, where he himself dislikes cloakers because on his setup they're hard to spot, whereas on his friends PC it was incredibly easy. So there might be a huge disparity between players ability to spot infils based on user setup.

Reminded me a bit of the darklight issue which also saw some clients struggling with cloakers.

Either way, this issue is separate from balance and should be treated as such.

As for the spam of anti-infil threads, I just report these salt pits at this point. The same old complaint: I died to said class/weapon/vehicle therefor it's cancer and needs to be nerfed. Planetside #1 excuse

People need to learn to separate their feelings from facts, just because you die to a thing and claim it as 'unfun' doesn't mean it's OP. Dying in videogames is unfun.. To no-one's surprise xD

Also to address your suggestion:

They've tried that and it was really unbalanced as thermals just ran rampant all over, they then reverted it as it completely removed any purpose for a cloak.

More options would be great, but it would require redesigning a lot of classes to be less focused on infantry killing as it is now. Because currently most classes are just that.

Not nearly so much as you think. Typically, the first sign that you're up against an SMG Infil is getting shot in the flank or in the back, in which case no thermal sight is going to save you. Head-on, a moving Infil is already very visible at SMG ranges, so a sight isn't going to make as much of a difference here as you would think. It's not nothing, but calling it a "solution" is generous.
Calling it a solution to sniper cloakers, however, is flat-out dishonest. If they're 100m+ away from you on a tower or a hill as most snipers are, it doesn't matter if you can see them or not.

The problem with that is though that you would have to play a guessing game as in who can see me who can't. The cloak is already not that great for actually being unseen for anybody other than an stalker cloaker. Not to mention you seem to forget that both Infradine and Infravision are a thing making a cloak in that case basically obsolete. From what we could see with the Buffed Archer and it's empire specific counterparts the thing that actually matters isn't the cloak but the weapon. Give a heavy a CQC Bolt action Sniper Rifle and he is gonna go on the same rampage as a Infil.
What i would suggest is actually finally fixing and improving that damn flashlight, give base turrets searchlights or tripwires or make EMP grenades drain cloaks (like they say they should do but don't).

Really hate infiltrators, they are broken as hell.

I don't know what they changed but in the early days they where not a pain but now days. Truthfully I think they should split it into two classes.

Assassin, which keeps the cloak and the close range weapons (as that is pretty balanced) and sniper, which is focused on long range fire and maybe a mobility tool like a grappling hook. with the cloak being a time deploy item.

Bastion - only found at one base, easy to avoid (change the zone)
Infiltrators - Behind every ******* corner during prime time

Doesn't take a genius to know that the chances of new players running into an annoying invisible enemy is way higher than encountering a bastion.

In the early days the cloak was in a state such that using it actually made you easier to spot, Nanoweave would protect against headshots at anything over ~50-75m, the most common class (Heavy) had yet to be properly balanced, and the economy was so busted that acquiring new weapons was difficult so SMG wielders were relatively rare.

Exploits got fixed, stuff got balanced, Cert gain increased, players got better. QED

First of all, absent external guidance, new players often don't know how to get out of a bad fight. Or even that they're in bad fight in the first place. They just keep clicking redeploy until the base falls.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are genuinely failing to remember the state of the game at this time, the fact that Bastions can absolutely influence more than the hex that they reside in, the fact that there were usually no less than 2 and frequently three aloft at Prime, the fact that fratricide was just as if not more of an issue where they were concerned, or the fact that it wasn't until either June or July that there was even the illusion of counterplay from the ground, or that all of this took place against the backdrop of Outfit Wars, when the Zergs and skill-balls were operating at peak-tryhardiness to win alerts and lock continents by any means necessary, which would frequently guarantee a Bastion would show up over a major fight at some point. Oh, and War Asset Orbital Strikes had just become a thing, too.
This was the stage at which the majority of your initial population surge fell off.

But no, it was probably infiltrators.

Maybe too much benefit of the doubt was given.

Pretty much this^

Ever since they buffed the archer, I've been having an absolute blast on the Engineer. Literally Bolting with a back-up shotgun, infinite ammo, mines for days, and a turret. I held a room against 4 people constantly trying to get to me.

It was never about the cloak, people tend to justify their hatred for the cloak using bolting as excuse.
Normal infils don't like bolters either.. It's literally COD arcade sniping.

Thing is, people complain about EMP yet flashes make you a blind for literally 6 seconds where you're a free kill, and concussion even worse where you just become a potato for 6 seconds or so xD

So are Heavies, so are a lot of classes actually implants screwed the balance of classes hard. Whilst I wouldn't mind the end of like an assassin and like a sniper class with mobility tool. People would still moan about it, because people don't like dealing with snipers or assassins.

I've had more people quit PS2 because of Heavies than Infils tbh, ngl..

I remember that whole unbalanced BS, didn't even touch SMGs back then. Then finally when they made it worthwhile, it's considered OP.

Pretty much, just had a large discussion about a VS outfit on my server doing exactly that.. All the time, orbitals, bastions, or just continues zergs. We've been up against them for a while now and it's always the same. Decided to join them today, and it's exactly as I thought.

Just popdump a base and ruin fights.

But yes, probably infiltrators.. Right?

Sir you are using a common troll/political point away, it is generally used to deflect from the problem and prevent work towards something better.

Anyway, Yes I do agree that heavies need a rework as a group of 4 of them can easily face tank most situations, especially if there is a medic near them.

But they are second in the direct problem set, infiltrators have a problem where the more lag they have the more dangerous they are as they can kill you while still cloaked as far as the server is concerned. No other class is that heavily effected by lag.

Not only that but there is minor and major balance problems with their cloak in general, and yes every single one of them are caused by implants.

The common implants are ok, but damn those heavy late game ones are just broken as hell.

The problem being that people in 2022 still don't know how to counter an infiltrator, despite having a multitude of gadgets available to them. The problem lies with people's entitled attitude towards anything that kills them. People tend to deflect away from changing their attitude or adjusting their playstyle in favor of complaining about the things they die to.

Darklights - are seen as a 'nerf' to their character.
Mines - barely get used. (But big fights?) If you place a AP mine in the backdoor entrance, no non-stealth class can get to that without becoming swisscheese.
Barriers - Only proper tactical squads make use of these.
Realizing that the combat is 360 around you, not just tunnel visioning in a 80 degree arc in front of you.

Truthfully? Every single class benefits from lag, and get destroyed by it. I ran behind a container the other day, and 2 WHOLE seconds after I did this, I got shot by an NC max on the opposite side. This wasn't one of those, i just came round the corner either, I was in the middle behind the container. That's how bad it was.

Heavies get an instant shield so they feel nothing of the lag.
Medics can get extra healing ticks off.
Engineer turrets get extra shots off, even if the target is already cloaked.
Light Assault ambush yet makes it seem like the guy was mid-air when he OHK you, but was actually standing next to ya.
Infiltrators uncloak whilst firing, but also take longer to cloak clientside so you'll see them for longer

Hell, if you have above 60 FPS in the game? You can STRAIGHT UP WALL CLIMB, otherwise you cannot.

Every single class in this game gets benefits and negatives from it, this isn't just an Infil thing.

Infil specific implants are garbage tier, and most implants don't really have much synergy with the cloak. Deep operative is an absolute joke for the 12 sec wait time, get hit once and it's useless. And Firewall? ("Wait, is that an implant?".. Yes unfortunately it is) Is not only an EXCEPTIONAL implant, it is only the only class specific one.

Like please, look at this thing:

OMG enough from you dude. Go log some hours as something OTHER than an infiltrator and try your own special advice.

The audacity of you telling Heavies, or Light Assaults, or Medics or Engineers how to play. You talk as if you know.

A flashlight with the detection range of 5 to 10 meter (above and below won't show infiltrators)
...
...

Sorry, did you use the plural of the word gadget?

So guys, do you like getting "L2P" "advice" from infils while having hundreds if not thousands of hours in-game?


"Just counter infils by not standing still guys! You'll instantly kill every infil on the map if you press W! Darklights are actually great against infils, not that I would know!

Source : trust me bro."



i'll actually respond to stuff once I'm done with finals brb