If there is a minor cloack...

hahahah For you probably anybody saying Im a dentist so I knovv about tooth is narcissistic too...

Actually you are playing as an infiltrator and using all kind of things designed by me already... sorry to break it dovvn for you... dont forget vvhy are you envious and following posting in every tread all kind of nonsense negative vvithout any real reason or point. You even vvritten a long post I don't need to read because you are a cliche very predictable and your insults are so unintelligent I can find 5 million hits in google... Because you see if you vvant to suggest something at that to be put in the server you need imagination... capicce?

Although No0ts suggestion is ofcourse trying to take it to the extreme, the idea of creating alternate class-based implants has apparently already been approved by DBG.

Now everyone goes apecrap about minor cloak, saying dumb stuff like "now the infiltrator power is given to everyone!", which is complete bullcrap. An infiltrator can stealth instantly and run around with it. Minor cloak has an activation time of 8 seconds, in which you can't move, and afterwards you can't move anyway.
Future class-based implants would suffer similar downsides, and would in no way, shape or form make other classes obsolete. For example an LA-based implant could require you to stand still to 'charge' your jumpjet, then it has a slow ascend like Drifters, and it can take you a maximum of 1 floor up. HA shield? Only active while standing still for some time, then it's constantly on until you move or get enough damage. Ofcourse, standing still during battle isn't the best option even with a mangled HA shield...

It should be obvious to anyone that these implants at best give you more versatility in each class, but won't instantly take away the need or power of an entire class. Ofcourse, what should be obvious is apparently overlooked by the lionshare of the PS2 community.

Is there somehow a link between Noot and Scr1nrusher? I somehow see them never on the same time in the forum..........oh

Says the OP who can't figure out how to use the W key on their keyboard. Here is what the W key looks like.

I'm not sure I agree with you here.

For example : Before the rocklet rifle release, literally the only thing that made the LA not a gimped engineer was the jump pack. LA's could get into wierd and unusual places and attack from unusual angles. If you add in an implant that allows every Tom, Dick and Heavy onto the rooftops, apart from C4-fairy'ing, what value is the LA going to have left?

High-speed movement across different heights. Less limited in what kind of heights he can reach and thus what things he can climb. Lower vulnerability when using his ability compared to the minor variant. Possibly the minor variant could reveal you on the radar and add a sound so users are much more vulnerable etc etc.
But hey, I don't mind upgrading the LA some more. How about a new utility that creates false radar signatures? Would help immensely to throw off enemies who spotted you, or when engaging an area where motion spotters are active. What about being able to swap the jumpjet for the old Charge ability? Would fit the LA like a glove. What about allowing LA's to swap their jumpjet with a teleport-gun? Fire a disk, activate the ability with F whenever you want and after 3 seconds you are teleported there. If the disk is destroyed by an enemy you die upon teleportation, but you can simply place a new one if you noticed beforehand. What about a damage ability? A CQC ability that can be fired at your enemy to do some extra damage and/or disorient him. There's so many ways the LA could be made unique with and without his jetpack.

I never claimed that LA's wouldn't remain more manoeuverable, I just pointed out that their "primary role" of roof perching was going to be under threat by the introduction of a jump-pack implant. For someone as smart as you seem to be, sometimes you act really dumb.....

Well.... some of these are good ideas, some, not so much.

• Infils already get a decoy grenade, and we've seen just how often (and effectively) that gets used. I can't imagine it'll be much different for an LA.
• I kinda like the Charge idea - a sort of horizontal accompaniment to the LA's vertical mobility. It would really help with closing the gap while running a pump-shotty that's for sure! I picture it in my head as something like Mass Effect's Vanguard ability. Of course, I'd like to see some downsides too.... if you ram yourself into a wall face first at 200 kph, you should take some serious damage.....
• I'm not sure about the "teleport-gun". Depending on how it's implemented, it could be either useless or OP. Personally, I'd way rather give LA's the ability to set up some sort of PS1 router-system. Would add some nice team-play benefits to the LA. In fact, I think that this sort of idea would be far better than "implant jump packs". If we had routers, we wouldn't need the silly implant, and the router system encourages teamwork.
• As for the disorienting thing, as noted above, don't LA's already get Flash 'nades? Those pretty much fit the bill, no?

You said "what is the LA going to have left?". So you were signalling you thought the LA wouldn't have any role to play anymore.
And Perching is the least of an LA's capabilities. Sitting still on roofs shooting down isn't exactly a survival tactic, especially considering the range of most Carbines.

Oh dear god if people would stop using completely bad statistics for my idea's that would be soooo good.
Infils get a decoy grenade, which creates 1 signature, on one spot, that makes an occasional shooty sound, and costs resources, and has limited uses.
I'm proposing an ability that follows the LA around, which suits the LA since the Infiltrator uses external devices like recon-darts and decoy grenades (which should just cost 1 resource and you can carry 15 of them or something), and the LA uses more internal things he carries. So you activate it and enemies see multiple random radar blips appear that obscure the position of the LA when the LA is spotted by Q-spot or recon darts. It also helps obscure friendlies, or could be used to feign an attack somewhere and draw away enemies.

If we take the original MAX version: You can do it once and then have to go on a cooldown. You can interrupt the ability but it takes around 0,5 seconds to stop and pull up your weapon, after which the weapon fires even if you don't want it to anymore, which can be especially true for a pump-action when your enemy is moving about while you are still switching between two different speeds and trying to keep track of him while the ability stops itself. That's enough downsides, especially in combination with losing your jumpjets, to prevent it from becoming OP which many many many idi... players are afraid off.

How do you figure it too OP? Shoot it into a busy room and the 3 seconds required to teleport too it give them time to destroy the disk and kill you. If it's in the room already and you teleport inwards you have to re-adjust to your new position, hope that you are facing the right direction. If necessary you could add sound and light effects during the 3 seconds of teleportation to signal the LA's presence. Or in reverse you could give zero indication and just allow the LA to use his teleporter as a super-B flanking weapon... which is kinda what the LA is all build for anyway.
If it somehow becomes UP, you could do things like shorten/remove the time to teleport, increase the range at which the teleport disc can be thrown, allow the LA to use it without having to switch to the weapon first etc etc.

No. First off I mentioned it as a damage ability. You run up to someone and fire something alongside your Carbine. Just for the example's sake think of being able to fire a (severely weakened) Underbarrel shotgun without having to switch to it or having to release the trigger on your Carbine. Great for starting to damage someone or for finishing them off.
Second off the Flash grenade works far different. A Flash grenade requires much more premeditation, knowledge of the enemies whereabouts and a suitably small area where the grenade and your enemy can be in so you actually blind them, then praying they are blinded enough that it actually has a use. Compare that to, for instance, an ability that fires a cone-shaped flame in front of you (think of a Claymore explosion but weaker and a narrower directional beam) and the moment the explosion dissipates it leaves behind a think cloud of smoke.
Or think of being able to run up to someone during a battle and being able to blind them from close range with a single press of a button, no fear of blinding yourself or allies, no need to wait for detonation, no need to hope your enemy is blinded enough. Those kind of things.

As mentioned, while some of these abilities exist in some form or another I'm not talking about them. An LMG and Carbine have more in common with each other than the decoy ability I'm proposing and the decoy grenade. Yet there's plenty of room for LMG's and Carbines, right? They offer different capabilities, effective ranges, reloads, capacities, DPS etc etc. So what's the problem with adding the same versatility and differentiation to things like concussion grenades, decoy grenades, flash grenades, hacking, shielding, new ways to drive, fly, jump... You know, like most of the updates that have hit the game so far have already done?

I guess this is just a misunderstanding on my part then. I main medic and engy, so most of what I see from LA's is roof-perchers and pump-shotty's from "secure" entry points. Both of which would have been largely invalidated by the introduction of a jump-pack implant.

Now... I'm not saying that a good LA acts in these ways. I'm sure dudes like Iridar are running around doing awesome things with it. All I'm saying is that the majority of LA's I've seen are acting as outlined above.

Perhaps if you'd explained it better the first time, we wouldn't have had this problem. I remind you that your original comment was "How about a new utility that creates false radar signatures?". That looks and sounds like a decoy grenade. Now that you've explained it, it actually sounds a lot better, and like something that actually may see use. It would be good if it also created false doritos. That little marker once you've been spotted is a dead giveaway.

Thing is... I'm not sure that we can base it straight off the MAX ability. First up - for all that people complain MAX's are weaksauce, they're still pretty darned beefy. You can afford to take a few rounds of small-arms fire while lumbering forward and then slowing to a stop. LA's are going to have to move much faster, or they're simply going to die the vast majority of the time they try to use something like this. Similarly, MAX charge is a fixed-distance sort of affair, and you can afford to eat a few rounds while you recover if you have to end it early. I'm not sure LA's can do the same, which leads to a situation where you'd need more control, or a variable distance mechanic. Between that and the increased speed, pump-shotty LA's are going to end up way more cheesy than power knife stalkers and, unless we attach some decent downsides (and I'm not convinced that giving up the JP is enough of one by itself) people are gonna scream OP and it's gonna be nerfed or removed - which would make putting it in in the first place, pointless.

Thing is, in a busy fight, I'm not sure anybody would notice the disc going up - especially if it was behind the lines.... which is where any good LA would put it. If some dude peeks the corner and ducks back without shooting me, I don't care - I'm busy with the other three corner-peekers who are trying to kill me. Right up until our pump-wielding kill-master just appears behind me and oneshots me. The hackusations that will arise from something like this will be EPIC.

In addition, LA is one of the classes distinctly lacking in any sort of team-work abilities (other than dropping a beacon on the roof). I'd like to see this change, which is why I made my router-suggestion.

Huh... once again, including an actual description makes a world of difference.

I think I'm going to have to soundly "NO!" this idea. It certainly makes a ton of sense as an ability for a real-world soldier - nothing's fair, and staying alive's kinda important. But in terms of game-balance and -design, this sort of thing is generally a big no-no.

Now, I know MMO's like WoW are nothing like PS2, but the concept we're discussing remains the same across them all. Nothing upsets players more than losing a fight, and losing it because you feel screwed by "unfair" combat mechanics that don't leave you a chance to fight back. That's why crowd-control is always such a very touch subject in MMO's.

This idea seems immensely OP to me for one single reason - If we assume that pump-shotty's aren't OP because their range penalty and requirement to close the gap compensates for it, how would this idea be different from giving an LA a button-press pump-shotty to use alongside their carbine? They don't have the range penalty, 'cause they can use their carbine alone when at range. And if they do end up in a CQC situation, they have a "press to win" button.

I've been flashed/conced a bunch. If you're completely flashed/conced, there's almost nothing you can do (at least, nothing I've ever found effective). If you're only partially flashed/conced, you can mostly-sort-of fight back. This is why the Flash and Conc etc. aren't OP IWIN abilities - you can mitigate them by clever positioning and pre-aiming and stuff. Even if you still lose - you feel like you had a chance, or that it was your own mistake (bunching up around the door) that got you flashed and killed.

This idea would completely remove all that. The LA can fight normally with his carbine at range, and when he gets close up he can drop a disabling ability, instantly (no mode-changes), with no downsides that - if he's even vaguely aiming near the target - will substantially increase his odds of victory and reduce those of the target. Think about being on the receiving end of that for a minute..... no. This is a terrible idea.

That said..... I'm never one to let an idea go, so how about this modification to your idea :

What about the ability to cert into and equip special ammo types. These ammo's would consist of X normal bullets and Y "special" bullets. Say in a 4:1 ratio (obviously all numbers subject to balance testing etc. all numbers quoted purely for demonstration purposes).

The "special" bullets would do no damage, but would apply an effect to the target with a duration based on 1.5 x RoF (i.e. if you hit with special bullet 1, the effect would last until 50% after bullet 2 arrives - if all special bullets hit, the effect would be permanently on, but you would be overly penalised for the occasional miss).

Special effects could be based on things already ingame in order to reduce development overhead and, as always, the explanation for the effects would be "nanites". You could apply the EMP distortion to a player with one kind of ammo, and grey-out their screen (like a partial flash) with another. A third could impair their movement and aiming (about 1/3 of a full conc seems reasonable to me). All sorts of other things are possible, but those are three that are already ingame that could be used.

How about that?

Save that the features of said "decoy ability" you explained are perfectly handled by extending access to Decoy Grenades.

LMGs and Carbines are distinct in their game's eyes, either by statistics or accessibilities. The kludges like the "not a sniper rifle" Archer or the "not a carbine" PDW are too few and far between to matter in this regard. A carbine by this game's terms can be many things but it can never be so little like a Carbine or so much like an LMG that it stops being a Carbine and becomes an LMG and is defined by the statistics and accessibilities of an LMG. In fact, the playerbase has a strong inclination to complain when something is treated as bar in name but really acts like foo in practice. Class-specific things are like that too. That makes it a huge deal when something comes along that suddenly makes bar do something approaching what foo does.

Giving a class something it does not have that is something like something that another class has is also different from releasing another Light Assault / Engineer carbine or another Heavy Assault light machine gun. Moreover, small arms are the least beneficial model to follow after in terms of feature expansion. Let us leave the developers to believe that forever creating a new foo that is a slight variation of a previous foo is a perfectly acceptable thing to do in pursuit of "new content." Let the stagnating distraction clutter up.

There's no part of the EULA that says players have to encourage DBG to make decisions further in the direction of past decisions they disapprove, even if that's the only option given. The direction of updates being "left" does not mean that I have to, want to, or agree to encourage further "leftwards" progression from them.

No there is No0t.

This is a very very important point. It is very important for this to work that when they implement something like minor cloak, as they did, they do not take down the value of the main class is taken from.
I think if they do make a implant jet jump feet... Its important the upper hand is still in the main light assault AND as the minor cloak they could be combined to make LA ability better, example implant is only jump jet so you can use drifter jetpack and jump up while using the drifter(just as a hunter infiltrator novv could stay invisible all the time... though you would hear his cloaks switching from mayor to minor and back)... But remember that now you could be waiting up top cloaked by the time the finish their ascension to the top you are on and you could also have a minor heavy shield...

You have to look it as a whole, there is when it all makes sense.

And remember this changes would make ALL PEOPLE that ever played planetside2 to come back and play again, is not a bad thing...

Again, it depends on how useful and powerful the ability is going to be. Being able to get up one floor but having to expose yourself a lot is going to be very limiting, as most area's will require you to do more than one height switch and in all likelyhood only the first one can be done in the safety of your allies, meaning you are exposed with all the rest of the height changes you make.

Perhaps if you didn't assume something ridiculous we wouldn't have this problem. Imagine if I say "lets add a new type of shield to the Medic". Do you instantly assume that the idea is to give a replica of the Heavy shield? What's the "new" part about then?
The same here. I say "how about a new utility that creates false radar signatures". Your first reaction is "decoy grenade!". Ok, but decoy grenade isn't new, and it's also not a utility.
Now the reason why I'm hostile about this is because you are doing this a few times more, and have done this a few times before: You assume something that isn't a logical conclusion, then project it on me.

MAX charge can/could be stopped by simply opening fire. After a short delay your charge stopped and you started firing. I already mentioned this, so you do have that variable distance mechanic.
LA's have less health, but they are also less bulky and can more easily disappear into a larger group. Additionally it's less of a problem to die as an LA in this endeavor, while running in as MAX will give you a good tactical advantage that lasts for a few seconds before you are focus-fired because no one else will do this. However, if there were more players capable and willing to do this because the LA doesn't cost 450 resources, it suddenly gives the LA a powerful way to rush through chokepoints and divide attention, reducing the power of the chokepoint as enemies now focus and fire on different area's than just the door.

Similar to mines the disk can have faction-specific lights and sounds at varying degrees. I'm saying varying degree's so that you don't go "but lights would be too visible!" or "but if it loudly beeps it becomes like an annoying version of the Spitfire!". The light and sound could be very soft but noticeable enough, it could be loud and bright. The disk could be a huge thing, it could be tiny. Use your imagination, think of a teleporter disk that would actually work.
As for the router suggestion, you just complained in your very post that the jumpjet implant would be OP, then you give a single LA a glorified transport job and allow anyone to teleport anywhere the LA decides to teleport people but with far less downsides when they get there? Such as the ability to have a far better combat-implant instead of the jumpjet implant? Bit weird isn't it?

Aaaand here we go! I specifically state "For examples sake think of being able to fire a (severely weakened) underbarrel shotgun. Yet you go ahead and assume it's the real-deal. Also see the "example" word there? This idea could be anything. From firing a single dart that deals maybe 250 damage or something at range to a small AOE attack to something disorienting etc. Yet you instantly take it to the extreme again with your assumption.
Also lets compare this ability with the Heavy shield shall we? Heavy shield: 450 health added in one go, larger distances make this health count for more as enemy damage is reduced due to damage falloff. LA damage ability: Maybe around 500 damage dealt in one go depending on the ability (like a severely weakened UB shotgun?), and has range restrictions based on the type of damaging ability it becomes?
Also let's not forget that this ability can easily come with restrictions. For example, firing a weakened UB shotgun would give you a hefty COF increase. Other abilities could be a mixed blessing, like the idea of creating a thick amount of smoke around the opponent upon using the ability, blinding both you and your opponent.

Gee, maybe, just maybe, this ability could have limitations? You complain about "if he's even vaguely aiming near the target", well maybe he doesn't need to be aiming vaguely near the target but has to actually hit him? I used the flash ability as an example, again, so you knew what kind of thing I was talking about. But the first example I used was an ability that created smoke around the opponent for example after a damaging blast. And the amount of disability you give your opponent could be varyable as well. Imagine a 50% flash ability if you hit, and only a 100% flash ability if you hit the head? Or how about using the concussion screen (blurred vision) but not slowing down the movement and look speed?

Not exactly a modification, but I like the idea. Although maybe some type of limitation would need to be build in. For example a MAX isn't exactly hard to miss, so having one or multiple players use special ammo on him would be both easy and a terrible experience for the MAX player. Also considering the TTK and the way the latency system works, it might be better to let each hit have a small effect that lasts for several seconds, but have the disability stack with more hits. That means the ability is useful in longer engagements, especially since you cut off 25% of your damage, but it doesn't instantly overwhelm players in CQC combat.

I disagree. Decoy grenades offer a single radar signature, and don't have enough capabilities to overwhelm enemy radar abilities. Also the Infiltrator is much more covert and capable of avoiding it's own radar detection measures while the LA is a high-speed and pretty overt class that needs high amounts of confusion (like with a radar signature) and stealth gameplay (rather than stealth mechanics like a cloak) to stay alive.

I understand what you mean, but the LA and infiltrator have many, many similarities. Both rely on some form of stealth and surprise attacks to get by, both use forms of sabotage and not-on-the-frontline combat. Also the Infiltrator got the adrenalin pump ability from the LA, and in general is better off with it than the LA. Recently the Infiltrator also got access to the underbarrel smoke launcher in the form of the battle rifle underbarrel attachments (I assume that the smoke attachment is a part of it). The Infil also got somewhat similar CQC abilities as the LA when he got access to the SMG, and SMG infils are much more threatening than LA's from my POV. So I don't see a single problem with giving the LA a decoy ability, especially since the decoy ability of the Infil is practically useless and rarely ever used, even more so compared to the EMP grenade which is arguably the strongest in the game.
This would actually be a great start for diversifying the LA and infil more. Infil remains a spotter, using stealth and radar equipment to spot enemy targets and positions. LA becomes more focused on his confusion and gets a team-ability, helping teammates stay alive in enemy radar coverage.

The frustration of a guy getting paralized is the mistake of the guy feeling that vvay because THERE IS ALVVAYS SOMETHING YOU COULD HAVE DONE TO AVOID THAT SITUATION.

This is cause of many many crybabies they have to learn that CC is something that exist in real life and its absolutely moronic to let it out from a game like this because they feel impotent instead of learning to get around it... SEE that is the reason vvhy they didnt add a TASER to the vveapons...

And those guys are the ones nobody should be paying attention like the succesful designers of vvovv game play did.

(And dont get me started about it in vvovv there are like 100 ***** to get out and prevent cc or interrupt before it even goes out not to mention actually killing the cc player before he even has the possibility like vith a rouge.)

I dont see vvhy they shouldnt have decoy as I dont see vvhy infiltrators shouldnt have underbarrel shotgun because you can use darklight to see them coming vvaaaay before the shotgun one shot is actually one shot kill.

LA can appear out of novvere and shot gun you infiltrators should too! And notice Im not saying give them shot guns...

I see many persons here not understanding that adding this multiply your choices and desire to test other classes vvhich makes the game longer for EVERYONE... And if the abilities added are not terribly unbalanced this vvill not change the main nature of the game.

Play-ability is vvhat made VVOVV stay up for longer vvith millions of players.

People is so biased sometimes they cant see the very reason vvhy they are here in the first place...