Reasons why flying ESF in Planetside suck (at least on Connery) for the competitive player.

1. Gank Squads. People seem perfectly content going 7 on 1.

2. Related to reason number 1. Any time you target a player in a gank squad be it a straight up fight or a surprise attack most of the time they will flail around either running back to their friends or within their safety bubble if already there.

3. Any time you get a kill either by a surprise attack of in a fair contest most of the time the pilot will bail, reducing the amount of certs gained, and ruining stats (which I love statistics and personally it pisses me the hell off that they're artificially inflating theirs and hurting mine). If their point is to piss me off, well good job you did it.

So why the hell am I playing this game. I'm a competitive player that likes a fair fight where I can learn, grow and improve my skill. And all I'm left with is huge gank squads with insurmountable numbers using every dirty tactic imaginable hating the idea of a fair fight along with rewarding a clean kill.

I understand the solution to winning is to get friends, organize, and perform well as a team but what's the point? My primary competition is people who bail out, flail like a fish, and only want to fight when the odds are in their favor. That's not competition. That's pathetic. I like winning, but I don't like winning against people that don't even want to fight in a fair fight and run away all the time in various different forms be it jumping out , flailing, etc.....

On top of that. Most of the really good pilots (I know some of you say Connery has none but idc you get what I'm trying to say) seem to be obsessed with going solo, one of which I encountered was quite aggressively rude without even knowing me or having a reason to be pissed off). A lot of above average pilots seem to be flying with horrible pilots empowering them to maintain their ****tiness as a pilot. If you suck at flying you should die until you get better, PERIOD. Stop empowering scrubs to get kills they don't deserve, it's infuriating as hell.

Seriously, there's something really messed up about the community here, game play wise. Perhaps it's the game that promotes it but it's the community that maintains it. Yes I have my bias/agenda of what I want and no I'm not blind to that. I want a competitive environment in the skies, not this mess.

It is the same with Infantry and Tanks...on every server...

Planetside2 can't give you a balanced or fair fight....not anymore.

Maybe if it does not fit your attidute...there are always other games than that....

Sorry to say that but it is the only advice i can give you.

I had learned it on the hard way...

I think there are a couple things at play. You know I'm a new pilot. I fly around with my brother who's only been at the game for a week now. Both of us suck. I normally run a rotary and quick recharge pods and he runs the stock gun with quick recharge pods and we go out and try to keep enemy air off our ground forces. And honestly, a day doesn't go by where we don't get **** talked for not flying solo, not a single day. Too many pilots just want to have duels and could care less about being a small piece of the puzzle of a MMO. That's a major division in attitudes that makes the air game a joke of a mess. I'm all for good fights, and don't care so much if I loose, as long as it was a good time, but so many people just want to overwhelmingly stomp helpless opposition. I find it bazaar that so many people are content with with a 96+ vs 12-24 spawn-camping zerg. And that same mentality is present in the air. There are some incredibly skilled VS pilots on Connery, but they insist on running in groups of 6+ Scythes against 1 or 2 enemy aircraft. Using those numbers to dominate the air and swing the tide of a losing fight is one thing, but that same group will camp warpgates just outside render distance waiting to pick off any single ESF in a 8:1 fight. I took break from real life and moved to the Philippines for a couple of years to study their knife fighting, drink beer, fish and play some video games. I practice martial arts daily, and do a lot of sparring with my girlfriend, but it's not nearly as rewarding as sparring with someone my own size/skill. But you just don't see that same attitude in online cometitions. People gang up, hack, exploit, anything to stack the cards overwhelmingly in their favor. I don't know if it's a generational thing or what but people just don't have a drive to test themselves. I really hate to imagine how they perform in their professions, or how they go about their social lives. Not too bright of a future if this is an indication of how people handle life.

There are things they can do to lessen zerging, but any time there's a hint at that it gets shot down. Right now it pays to zerg (you get a better K/D, you get XP for the base cap/defense, and you're guaranteed to win. I'm not for handicapping teamwork, but I think they could buff a few things to balance things out. Like give an insane XP boost depending on how overpopped you are on your tile, that get's more and more people fighting against zergs, and encourages zergers to leave the horde in favor of an underpopulated fight that needs their help. You can't go 10 minutes without someone being salty about a zerg on general chat. I don't like the gameplay on either side of a zerg, I cant imagine who would. I really wish they'd do something to address it.

Edit: The same could be applied to air. I don't want to nerf XP because you're coordinated, so instead, give a new bonus to damaging enemy air while outnumbered in the sky. Make it a worthwhile XP boost so people have a monetary reason to not fly in a huge gank squad.

The reason why the air game isn't fun for noncompetitive players:
1: You get ganked by competitive players because the air-game favors specific techniques and you can't specialize in anything else

2: Any time you get a surprise attack the Reverse Maneuver (RM) and Hover Fighting (HF) will instantly prevent you from winning the battle. Disengaging from the battle is impossible because any flight technique that can be pulled off while outside of hover mode will give your opponent an advantage, rather than you.

3: Any time you do get to nearly kill a competitive player, he bails to save his precious KD, screwing you out of the satisfaction of a kill after finally beating one. It's not even the XP or certs, it's the pure dissatisfaction of not getting to finish when you do finally get there.

4: G2A weapons are ridiculously designed. They are either useless against the aircraft or prevent them from operating in the area. Any weapon that is designed to completely prevent one portion of the army to even play in an area in a combined arms game is badly designed.
There's no way for G2A weapons to get any better because the skill reduction mechanics (flak, lock-on, spray&pray, high velocity) are amped up to the max and beyond. The aircraft can't react to the G2A weapons either since there's no real dodging the G2A weapon fire, you are better off flying in a straight line than trying to do dodging maneuvers. Either way, it's not enjoyable for both the G2A users and for the aircraft users.

5: The fact that competitive players completely dominate the sky forces average players to do one or two things. They either join a gank squad to be capable of taking down the competitive players, or they quit the air-game altogether because they can't get into it and enjoy it. Since there's no real escaping aircraft, there's no good escaping a gank squad either. But most players elect not to join the air-game again, reducing the amount of players and restricting the choices of those players.

Conclusion: The current air-game sucks and needs an entire overhaul on A2A combat and it's relationship with G2A weapons.

The current air-game isn't fair regardless of gank squads. The air-game favors just RM and HF, nothing else. Anyone of lower skill that gets engaged has no way to escape, no way to compensate, no way to specialize in something else and get the drop on your opponent through creativity and using alternative methods than your enemy.

Ok so you admit that these gank squads contain players who stand no chance against you, and you still imply that it would be a "fair competition" if you went up 1v1 against them?

That's like saying that Usain Bolt vs some average bloke in a running contest is "fair competition" even though the outcome will always be the same: Usain Bolt wins.

Unfortunately most of these players probably don't suck at flying, they only suck at flying in PS2 because of the limitations to what you can become good at. In most games I kick butt the moment I enter an aircraft, except for PS2 because none of the aircraft-moves help you and only some backwater VTOL maneuvers are useful.

Yes there is something messed up with the community, but the reason why it's messed up is because the air-game is messed up. Oh and because of people like you who think that having more skill in a single field should result in an automatic wins.

So yes I do believe that if you're better than someone else in something you should win.

Yes I do believe if you are better than someone else in a particular field you should win in that particular field.

Also most of my anger from people bailing came from the fact that everyone bails including noobs, coming from PS4 only the elite pricks full of themselves bailed, everyone and their grandmother does it on US Connery.

Competitive players do not dominate the skies on Connery, Zergs with above average players combined with mostly **** pilots dominate it.

I don't see anything wrong with my whole "if you're better you should win belief". It is an opinion, since this is video games, a preference if you will, and it holds just as much validity if not more (but that's the arguable part) then someone who believes others should be allowed crutches to beat people better than them.

Perhaps this is selective only to Connery, but I honestly don't see much of the competitive spirit most games have. It's pretty much devolved (I assume it's been better) into an entire scrub servers, at least in the air game. People seem to get comradery and excitement from team based zerging with 0 challenge. Most seem allergic to challenges.

yep, PLANETSIDE 2 is boring now for all competiv Player.

but the dev`s, don`T giv us our old fly style back, most of them don`t fly in that game and they don`t know what they do.
the big Point is, they wan`t planetside 2 as a main stream game. that a newb, can do same like skilled Player.
but the chances, makes that game boring, because main stream Player, don`t want to learn skill or flying, but they want flying.
so the devs Chance much Things, for the Mainstream.
but in the same time, u Chance that gameplay and the Spirit of that game.
performed Player, don`t want hole time big zergs, sometimes they want 1v1, for that,flying was perfect,
now after all chances, esf got no role in that game.
and if i read in a combined arms game (on load Screen):
"Don`t fly with an ESF, in bigger fights or ýou instand die"
than i know, with this game is something wrong.

You want to 1-on-1 jump/duel and kill other ESFs. You want to boost your K/D. I don't like these styles of play, and I don't support your wanting the game to change to make these styles of play more prevalent/easy.

PS2 is not intended to be designed to promote 1-on-1 duel gameplay, it's a Massively Multiplayer game (solo or group is fine, just as long as you engage a group). I appreciate that you enjoy 1-on-1 ESF dueling in PS2, but I strongly dislike those players who ignore their faction's battles and just farm other players in areas far outside their faction's territory. Maybe you should coordinate with other ESF duelists and go duel each other on Test Server like Mattiace did with his friends back in the day.

The stats and stat padding in this game are toxic to the overall gameplay. It not only drives people to play in ways that don't help their faction and support the game's formal strategic objectives, but it also drives people to lobby for changes in the game to help them pad their stats better. (and Devs like Wrel who to try to change the game to help pad stats better: yuck) It's Devs fault they don't even spotlight other basic important stats (like Vehicles Destroyed, ESFs Destroyed, etc... like how Aces are determined in the "real world"), but I still don't the warping effect that K/D has in driving players to play or lobbying toward K/D padding.

I do agree that Gank Squads that farm deep into enemy territory and without any care about ally objectives are lame. It works against the game's formal objectives (both for those doing it and those they kill), it's a nightmare for other pilots trying to deal with it, and it fosters a meta that is toxic. As I (and some others) have said a million times, they should add Air Radar over non-Contested enemy territory, that shows all Air entering enemy airspace as icons on the big and mini-maps.

PS2 is still a fun game. But the Devs continue to not fix many basic dysfunctions in the game. And they continue to make changes that go against the support of the average player. It's just that so many other games out there are garbage or just can't provide the same genre experience, that PS2 has been able to skate on it's poor Dev work.

I would love to see bonuses in the way of getting kills/damage when being hit by multiple targets. That would be awesome. I've thought of that myself too. Glad to see others share the same.

Unfortunately, this "strategy" has become more and more pervasive (and dominant) in professions, social lives, and society in general. And it has been the people at the top (and of the older generations) who have led the way in this, rampantly and brazenly preying on those under their influence. And (many of) the younger generations have picked it up as the way to live life or even as a value system ("winning" [which means getting the prize in their eyes] is more important than how you play).

I think Globalization and Technology have played a large role in ramping this up, but regardless of the catalysts, it is here and in large effect. Beware the paths that authorities steer you down, trust no boss, do not reveal your hand, vet new friends and keep your friends and family close, watch your back, and keep exit routes and backup plans ready.

Oh and don't get me wrong guys. I can deal with some of these things happening quite often. It's the fact that all of these things are happening all of the time, practically every minute that I'm flying that I'm pissed the **** off.

Deep man. I like it. xD

Yah I'm very much the black sheep in real life. I do not go with the flow, hardly ever. Unless it makes sense to me which is rare.

The problem here is "should".

In infantry vs infantry combat the more skilled player is the most likely to win. He doesn't simply win, he's the most likely. The situation can change and cause the less skilled player to win, or the less skilled player can be skillful in other fields such as achieving better positioning or using different strategies to beat the more skilled player on a different field.

In tank vs tank combat a lot is determined by pure DPS. A player with worse accuracy will have worse DPS. However a player can compensate through other skill sets, again by using stealth tactics, reducing the distance to level out their accuracy or flanking attacks.

In aircraft combat there's just RM and HF, there are no alternate attack or defense maneuvers you can apply. So if someone is more skilled in this combat, he automatically wins. You can't adapt, you can't change the combat situation, you can only try to become better in this single field of RM+HF until you beat your opponent, or bring enough friends until your combined DPS simply kills him faster.

So while you are thinking "I'm more skilled", you are more skilled in just these maneuvers. You could be going up against players who can do things a million more times difficult to pull off (such as shaking off someone in PS2 air-combat while going at speed, which is nigh impossible), but simply because those maneuvers don't give you the same power as HF and RM you get to win. Not because you are more skilled overall, but because you are more skilled in the singular maneuvers that actually give you power in the game.

A good air-game would offer alternatives. So you are better at hover-combat? Well your opponent could be better at high-speed combat. In that case, the game should offer enough power to high-speed combat so that you both can use your combat styles. Imagine: You go in hover fighting, but your opponent knows he'll lose because he's not skilled so he picks up speed. You are forced to follow him, at which point your opponent uses his superior skill in high-speed maneuvers to shake you off and engage you. You then have the chance to turn the tables around again by going into hover fighting once more. Alternatively you can keep in hover mode and wait for your opponent to return at speed and duke it out on both your own terms.
That's already a million times better than "haha screw you, I am more skilled in the only thing that counts even though there's no reason to have only this maneuver have power".

So... Why are you attacking the average player for bailing if you admit that any elite pilot does it on the PS4? It's not different on PC, except the average player has picked up on the tactic of bailing and is using it as well.

I never said they needed crutches, I said they needed alternatives to deal with other players, to get a more diverse air-game and allow players to specialize in multiple area's.

But on the subject of crutches, yes there is room for noob-tubes. The purpose of noob-tubes isn't to give new players a way to kill elite players with ease, the purpose is to give new players an feeling of power and enjoyment, but most importantly a noob-tube has to teach the new player the basic combat skills he'll need to learn the rest of the weapons. However a noob-tube is also designed with gaping problems which cause experienced players to stop using it and move on to other weapons once they achieve enough skill.

The reason it has devolved is because there's only one thing you can get good at. If you can't beat the other player you go look for alternatives. In my above examples you can become adept at fighting styles your opponent isn't good at or that give you an advantage during the engagement regardless of your opponents skill. However there's only one alternative playstyle available if you can't beat the elite pilots at their game: Gank squads. You form gank squads to murder the elite pilots because it's the only viable thing to do.
However, as the amount of gank squads increases because the average solo pilot will now have to deal with elite players and gank squads and his only solution is to use a gank squad of his own, eventually the elite pilots will have to create gank squads of their own. This spirals out of control, like on connery, where you find mostly gank squads because it's the only effective counter against elite pilots and other gank squads.

Conclusion: You have to offer alternatives. It's probably too late for Connery from what you say because they won't magically change their tactics, but for the other servers it can still save it. Having alternatives besides Gank squad or practice for days on a singular combat style will help open up the air-game for new and old players alike, there will be more aircraft around and more air vs air combat overall.

hmm i Thing the bigggest Point, what we vorgett.

ok you don`t want, that playstyle,

but in the same time, you say, you don`t like that game, because only that game have this playstyle.
i like 1v1 Situation in that game, because i get boring if i Play hole time 100 vs 10, spawnroom booooom.

the massively multiplayerole, don`t say, that u can`t do in that game a 1v1, no it just say, u can Play with more if u want.
and, if i read go to testserver if you want ur playstyle, because my playstyle is the only one ( infantety gameplay YAAAAAY boing, boring boring)
and if you see the serverpop, than you know ur playstyle is ****t and kill that game , becuase People get boring.
than is not that game boring,
boring is People like you, who mean they Play alone and don`t Respekt other gamestyle.
People like you, chanced the Spirit of that game to a noob game and People like you kill that game, because People get boring of only 1 playstyle (yaaaaaaaaaaaaa infantreryyyyyy hole time, everywere, zerg zerg ´zerg)

hmm sure, that game will die fast

There's a well known military phrase called 'defeat in detail' which basically means ganging up on the enemy. No doubt it sucks for the enemy and they don't think it's fair, but it's a thing. It's the same in the game. Lots of stuff doesn't seem 'fair' but we have a choice to suck it up and deal with it, avoid it, or stop playing the game.

Personally I hate the fact that the air-game is so one-sided. It's practically impossible for new pilots to make any progress because of these self titled 'sky knights' that try to introduce their own subset of rules into a game that doesn't really have many rules. It's a sandbox game and people are entitled to play it however they choose (without cheating). There's no right way to play, no rules that pilots should be left alone to fight 1v1, no rule to say that if I have a lock on launcher and I see 2 pilots going 1v1 that I can't shoot at them.....etc.

oh ya the next one.
ok i will tell you one Thing...

4 years ago, i start playing. ( there was no Coyote or tomcat aviable, nosgun, lolpods, AH, Hoover or other ******* nerf) infantery only. my fav class was HA.
@ the beginning, i got farmed hole time, by a tank or a ESF, if i din`t look for them (man i got so hard fights vs ESF pilots with my HA and Standard rocket launcher (because lock ons takes too Long to use).
after 100 times of get farmed, i say me, man i should learn flying too.
1 Year after this Point, i was the best NC ESF Pilot on all Server u call them Skyknights.
yep is was the best time in that game, (sure i played infantery only at the start), but the real funn i got in the time where i fly.
now is over because, People (like you) don`T like that.
and i can now see, how i looos my fun + how i loose a good game, because the chances kill it


so now back to your ****t.
look time ago,
People learn flying if they get farmed.
after PS2 Devs start nerf weapongs.
now People cry if they get farmed (cry for nerf)

we should go back to the roots, and don`t Chance anything.
we leaned the last years, if u listen to some People, that Game die.

Top ESF Pilots farming Air is bad for the game. ESF Gank Squads farming Air is bad for the game. They both kill the Air Game for *most players*. That's just the way it is, farming players requires volume (in this game), and volume farming of players drives players off.

Air farming Infantry is bad for the game. Again, farming players requires volume (in this game), and volume farming of players drives players off.

K/D and Cert Grinding both drive players to farm other players. This is a total train wreck for the game. Farming is good for PvE, it keeps players busy in grinds. Farming is bad in PvP where it has OP players wiping out large volumes of players and driving them off.

Solo players lack basic support tools (such as a quick method to get to a good fight) that were in the game at launch. A solo player's best way to get to a good fight is to join an attacking battle. A solo player's easiest way to join an attacking battle is to spawn at a Sunderer. Most the Sunderers that survive over time are in ally zergs. Which means a solo players best way to get to a good fight is usually to spawn at a zerg. People complain about zergs, but zergs are the only method left in the game that reliable provides a solo player with easy access to a battle.

Why can't you go to Test Server to duel? If you can get enough people to go, you can have some great duels and reliably get duel after duel after duel. Or ask DBG to make you a special "Arena" area where EFSs can go to duel.

I *do* fly ESFs. It's not like I don't. I fly them all the time. I just don't pad my K/D and I don't volume farm weaker ESFs or Infantry with my ESF (though I did long ago when I needed Certs or kills for Directives: which was bad DBG design pushing me to do that). I just try to support my faction in taking bases. I won't pretend my ESF still doesn't anger ground players (too much ground lacks proper answers to Air, especially new players), but it's a LOT better than ESFs that farm other players in volume.

DBG is not smart in making a game where players farm other players in volume. Unless the farmers are paying them a TON, or the people being farmed can be made to enjoy it.

I can appreciate you like what you like. But in no way should DBG support PvP volume farming in the game. Or any other volume behavior that drives players off in massive amounts. I am not saying the game has to be narrow, it just has to avoid types of play where 1 player shuts down the game for tons and tons of other players... *if* that 1 player doing so does not generate extra income or make other people paying people happy. This is pretty common sense: make your customers happy, don't cater to a handful of customers if it means driving away tons of customers.

Lock-ons were introduced some time after launch, like a year or so after? So what's this about using Lock-ons 4 years ago? Or am I screwing up and is PS2 already more than 5 years old?

The fun you talk about is the fact that you were the best, the players you beat weren't having as much fun except for the few people who were dueling.

Besides that your reasoning is flawed "Because I could become good, others can become good as well". You boast about becoming the best which already means that you are a bad example of how the game works for most players. And while you want your special snowflake status, the game isn't going to prosper if it only caters to the 5% top players. The game dies out because only the 5% top players then enjoy the game.

In other games you can use lobbies and skill levels to allow players to enjoy the game and learn. Take Rocket League, the difference between a new player (yey! I could hit the ball!) and someone with a few hours in is already massive, and the difference only increases the farther you get. Without a balancing system less experienced players would get paired up against players far above them and get their butt kicked over and over again, then leave. The game empties and those top players are left, who eventually leave as well.
PS2 doesn't have any balancing system for skill, so it has to balance it somewhere else. The problem is that there aren't enjoyable weapons to counter aircraft from the ground, and the air-game itself is scewed to favor one-trick-pony maneuvers (yes yes there's more to it than that but it comes down to just HF and RM). This favoritism prevents anyone from entering the air-game unless... You are determined and skilled enough to become a top player. This screws anyone who just wants to enjoy a few bouts in an aircraft once in a while over since they can't really do anything, it also screws anyone who wants to counter the aircraft because they have to choose between G2A weapons that are unenjoyable and joining the air-game which they can't win in the first place.


So to conclude: No people don't learn flying if they get farmed. We are 4 years in and you can safely say that there's less people in the air-game since launch. Well maybe not since the Coyote update, but that fad will blow over.

Because I hate when all pilots bailout. It artificially takes away certs from me and makes an already low cert gain activity lower. On PS4 the small ***** elite pilot community was annoying but tolerable because of their small size, like I said on PC everyone does it so it's not tolerable due to it constantly being shoved in my face. Can't even enjoy a single kill except against a scrub that hasn't "learned" to bail out yet.

I don't believe in noob tubes. I'm glad you brought that up because when I first played Call of Duty 4 I hated them. I've always favored precision weapons and self improvement, it's in my DNA. And I'll always promote a skill based game over or a crutch based game. Noob tubes don't make scrubs better and more likely to use skill based weapons. They make them complacent. Most people also don't care about actual self improvement, only perceived self improvement and fun. I'd rather have less people playing a game that's built around competitive fair play then a dirty game with lots of dirty tactics. Yes I understand they are a business and yes I understand modern culture means most people want to be spoon fed, given a participation medal, and told they're always attractive when theyre not, and that that's why the game is what it is, but no I do not have to like it or be accepting of it. Hence the post.

hmm i miss my Point_:

the Point is, if u can`t Chance u Need to understand (learn) --------------.(philosophy of our world 2016)
but if u can Chance you don`t Need to learn, you only Need to cry ---------------- ( philosophy of the world 1750)

you kill a game, because People get a skill in that?
so your logic is, if i can`t get a kill or a K/D over 1, so all should`t have it too???
and if you say, i don`?t giv a **** of my K/D, so why so angry vs Skygnights'???

the fact, that Player don`t want to get killed in sky, (on skygnight, semi Pilot, or just a better one) is only the Point of his killstreak or K/D.
and i bet, u don`t Need to be a top air skilled Player to kill a newb, where kill with lolpods infantery.
if you talk about skilled pilots, than understand his playstyle.
Most time : Skygnights, don`t go for inf, they go for duels in the sky.
only newb, or People who Thing they are good and PrO", farm hole time inf...
mostly the skyknights Balance Airgameplay, because they kill the People where farm hole time inf.
mostly they Balance Airgameplay, because if some 5 mossi, syth, reaver gank squad on way, Skygnights allway go for them...
sure if a faction, have more skygnights than a other, they will rules sky hole time,
but
(time now on PS2)
if the skygnights want, (Setup with Coyote or locks) still rules the sky they can it do same like ever, the only Chance now is, you killed the Balance, because 1 Skygnight of the underpoped faction can`t do anymore anything vs the 5 other.
thats is the Point wehre make the most ace pilotsa angry




to the locks, end 2012 locks for infantry was aviable, but the lock times was way too Long. (4sec over that i talk)
we are now end of 2016, hmm sure 4 years now, not exactly but yep screw up.