C4 Broken OP

Chain pull, just spawn another tank, try again. Lol. NC on genudine don't have tech many times. So many times an NC tank is coming on a long drive from Warp.

Look I am not calling to do anything to C4. But lets get real about skill and cost. There is zero skill, zero spawn costs, and minimal cert cost to C4. It takes what 700 certs to get 2 bricks of C4. Lol. Tankers spend THOUSANDS in certs on their tanks.

I think your thinking about this all wrong, yes you got killed in a rather unfair manner and that's frustrating I know I've been in many many situations playing this game but lets be honest that's the nature of this game any player can go basically anywhere on the map except for very specific small arias. It's an open world and people are going to make there way behind enemy lines to try and hit them where it maters in this case, you, the reinforcements making your way to the front lines and if they can stop that from happening than it helps their cause. Preventing a potentially game changing unit from making there way to the front line is huge and sometimes the best way is to send a single person, sneak behind enemy lines, and use whatever means they have to neutralize it in this case C4. It's strategic and it works, you can argue that the regenerative money it's costs to use the two is wildly different and on paper looking at that and only that, it seems unfair. But consider this, are bolt action snipers unfair because sometimes they only use one bullet to kill you by hitting you where it matters while you need to throw sometimes hundreds of rounds at them to take them down? No, it's because that's how it works that's it's strength, if that sniper was closer you would have no problem taking them down easy. It's the same with C4 it's strength is when placed in the right spot it can take down any tank and most other vehicles when used in twos but in that sense you only get one shot and if you mess that shot up (you miss one or both C4's) you ether have to re spawn back at base or have a sunderer or equipment terminal nearby just to have another shot it requires precision and timing to get right and usually if you screw up you have to re spawn and make the long walk sneaking by with no cloak hoping you don't get seen just to get another shot.

There is why more going on here than just nanites, it's a commitment of time, you can pull another tank in a second with your regenerating money that soldier will spend another 5-10 minutes just to get another shot at you, imagine if your tank had only one round one VERY powerful round but it required you to hit a very specific part of enemy vehicles to kill them but you only have to hit them there once. And after firing that round you ALWAYS have to go back to base or find a sunderer to re supply no acceptation. Also, if you get hit or your cover is blown you can just throw your tank away and get another one because it's basically gone anyways.

TL;DR Your money regenerates, it's takes a long time to get into the position to kill you, think of it as being the same as the precision of a bolt action sniper verses the moar bullets style of LMG's or SMG's. Take some time and think about it, it's a different play style that counters your play style simple as that.

That's all I can think of for now take it or leave it, whatever.

What game are you playing?? There is no precision required for C4 where you need to hit a very specific part of an enemy's vehicle.

Opps I have been talking about C4 in the PC forum thought I was in the PS4 forum. Tanker if you think C4 is cheesyon PC, you aint seen nothing. It's a cheese factory of C4 on PS4.

Yes, behind the tank you cant just toss the C4 any freaking where and expect a kill you have to hit the rear or it's not a kill so the C4 needs to be in a specific spot to kill thus precision.

You serious?

1) You buy prox radar, infantry has to buy c4. We have to buy something in order to make it fair?

2) You could have seen him by, I don't know, looking around?

3) You weren't looking around, you clearly looked at the sky and just stayed like that until being poofed. And if something isn't in your field of view...then it snuck up on you.

4) I was saying, don't just pull from a terminal, and just sit still looking up. Now, if the base was being contested this would make more sense. As you said the base was far back, really I could understand you not looking around, on the flip side, props to him for ambushing you where you least expected it.

5) Didn't do it well enough apparently

6) Um, if you simply kept driving forward, he wouldn't have been able to reach you from where he probably was (I can pretty much guess where he was hiding). Also, if you see a c4 fairy, your best defense (funnily enough) is to simply drive backwards/away from them. Their jumpjets will run out, they'll fall to the ground, you'll shoot them (if you can aim). That or they will throw the c4, and it will land harmlessly where you were, not where you are at.

7) You would activate your shield once you saw the c4 falling on you, that would be if you saw him. As he successfully ambushed you, and you had poor awareness, you had no chance to activate the shield. That being said, just because you couldn't do it, doesn't mean it isn't a counter, it just means it wasn't a counter viable for you at that time.

8) No, it's really not. It does take some skill to take out of a tank's field of view. Also, even if you could look in a 360 degree sphere with your turret you wouldn't have found that guy, he was hiding on the walkway above you. He waited until you pulled out and your canon wasn't looking in his direction, and jumped you. Don't blame you being ambushed on a poor field of view, again even if you could look up, he woulda jumped you as you weren't even paying attention to your surroundings. Besides, third person view basically renders your FOW argument moot.

9) You could have just said you disagree, but I guess the sassy few sentences was amusing?

10) My post contributes nothing? Content free? Could you be more insulting? I wasn't the one that got c4'ed, you did buddy. I didn't insult you at all. I just made a whole list of counters that you promptly rejected simply because you disagree, even though those ARE counters (dictionary, use it). As for content free, I could say the same about your whiney "wahh wahh i got c4'ed and now i want it changed" post. But I didn't say that, I didn't insult you for the same post that has been brought up and argued down 100 times. I didn't insult you for basically whining on the forums because something killed you. At least in my discussions with Chingles he will post some facts and stats to support his claim, you just posted a video of someone completely outplaying you, outclassing you, and ambushing you due to your own lack of skill. Also, most people woulda just laughed and went "wtf...welp that happened, why was he there? jerk....well imma pull another one I guess...but not from there". So the next time you wanna "blah blah" cause something killed you, do it to yourself, don't whine on the forums like some attention seeking child. We're not even going to bring up how silly it is that you had to ask the question "how could i see him" and the answer is something any normal person would be able to answer with "look around". And the next time you want to call someone's post content free and contributing nothing, you should pick up a dictionary and learn what those words mean. Just because someone contributed something that you don't agree with, doesn't mean it isn't a contribution. So, next time you make a post, trying being a bit more polite, disagreeing is different than simply being rude, which gets no one no where. Also, speaking of contributions, try not to "contribute" more whine threads on c4, come back when you at least have some stats/facts like Chingles brings to the table, oh and try to avoid bringing the same ones that we have all already seen and discussed over 100 times before.

Next

Please

Lol, dude. Read. That was a response to a different post.
Lol.

Anyway, my question still stands: why is it necessary that an infantry unit has the ability to both fly and instakill what's supposed to be the most well-armored ground vehicle in the game? What facet of balance requires this? If none, then I see no reason to keep the mechanics how they are, since how they are is a huge turn-off for many players.

You're right, I just reread it. I apologize. It was my my mistake on that. Truthfully, I am sorry.

The flying thing is a whole different aspect to the problem, as I stated, LA's are a whole different discussion in and off themselves. Truthfully I am behind them losing c4, but they would need some extra "spice" added into their class. This is because being c4 fairies is literally their selling point

As for why c4 is necessary. Well one, it keeps tankers from turning into tunnel visioned infantry farmers who just sit at long range clicking the mouse button and collecting certs. Keeps them on their toes. It is the single most effective way infantry can deal with a tank without it just pulling back and repairing. This is important because, if a tank is shelling infantry, they need that problem gone, for that problem just to come back 15 seconds later (repair gun) is not good enough. And while anyone can pull a tank per se, this a battle, problems need to be taken care of in a timely manner. By the time someone pulls to a back base, pulls a tank, gets back up to the frontline, and faces the armor, it is often too little too late. That being said, if I can use my skill as an infantryman to deal with the problem now, I'm going to do it. And while something is to be said for "being prepared, I brought armor, why didn't you?" I will leave to this next section.

On another note, even if it wasn't "necessary" lets say, I think a more fair question is, Why not? A tank has numerous advantages on infantry. It doesn't suffer small arms fire, it moves more quickly (top speed wise at least), it's main canon can one shot infantry, its secondary has a high ttk on infantry (in many situations and depending on the secondary), it can have AI secondaries, it has another gunner/another set of eyes to keep it safe, it can simply run over infantry, it can equip prox radar which basically takes all the "sneakiness" of infantry away, it has much more health, etc. Basically, a tank should and can roflstomp an infantryman (or even a few) over and over and over again as long as the tank has a skilled pilot and gunner. A tank has so many advantages over an infantryman that why not. If an infantryman can face the odds of going against a tank, successfully get close enough to c4 a tank, and the tank doesn't exercise any of it's advantages against said infantryman, why shouldn't it be c4'ed. As an example (albeit extreme, but made so for clarity). If you were holding an automatic rifle, had combat garb, hand grenades, a knife, a bulletproof vest, and were in much better shape than me, and had a motion sensor, and I had a big rock. And let's say I snuck up on you, and bonked you on the head, killing you instantly. Why shouldn't I get that kill. You could have seen me, seen me on the motion sensor, seen me on your IR goggles, shot me, stabbed me, thrown a grenade, beat me down with the rifle butt, taken the hit with on your chest where you had the vest, or even just moved away from me, the only thing I could do was bonk you on the head to win. Now I know that example is extreme but I think it gets my point across. Basically, with so many advantages, under what argument would you rob that infantryman of his kill. Nanites? Realism? You could say that being c4'ed leaves no time to retaliate, but you could have retaliated the whole time he was getting to you, or acted in a more cautious matter so that he couldn't sneak up on you.

Last point here. Infantry need to be able to be a major threat to all aspects of the game simply because, they are the majority. Infantry are the majority of the players, the most common unit on the field, and the backbone of any force. Because this is a game centered around casual players who just want to jump into a giant 96 vs 96 player fight, where they can redeploy anywhere, no specialization is needed for any infantry or vehicle role, and so they never feel helpless. Because those same people are usually going to play infantry for the majority of their time. Because this game decided specialization is not the route it wants, it's most plentiful unit must be able to handle all threats in a potent matter. This is just a backlash of the way the game is balanced and made. While it may make no sense that infantry can hurt tanks, you could also argue it makes no sense a platoon of tanks can pulled by anyone almost anywhere on the maps. But, this is the way the devs wanted the game. Everything, everywhere, all the time. Due to those lack of constraints, the most plentiful and majority unit must be able to deal with all threats, everywhere, all the time. And again, they need to be able to destroy it, not just make it run away and repair for 15 seconds. As long as the game is balanced like this, infantry will and must be a significant threat on the field to all actors.

Actually I saw how this C4 Fairy got to you. At the start of the video you see a VS lib get taken down by an NC lib. It is most likely that part of the crew bailed, saw a target of opportunity instead of just up and redeploying, c4ed your shinny new Vanguard. A tactic I remember using in AT before was to have 2 engineers and a LA in a liberator; the LA was the tail gunner and would bail over HVTs such as sundies or armor columns that it was to hot for the Liberator to stick around.

Good for the LA actually. Its always a pleasure running around in enemy bases and annoy the hell out of local forces. You can blame yourself and your teammates for being inable to make out an enemy in your very own base. Also he got a nice revenge for you killing him earlier.

Given your outrage over a pretty ordinary PS2 death, I don't even want to know why you did not drive the tank away, and chose to watch the clouds while loitering in the vehicle spawn instead, making a perfect target out of yourself.

I was wondering this myself. Kudos to the OP for having the Gall to post the video. Most complainers of C4 don't just for this reason, they know they done goofed up and don't want to show it.

Planetside 2 like most PVP oriented games requires a player to be aware that they are always in danger. If you're not in a warpgate assume someone is targeting you, assume someone has anticipated your approach and that you can be shot at, mined, or C4'd at any time.

Do this and you cut your deaths in half.

Such as this video, all the guy had to do was keep going forward and left the LA to be someone elses problem. Or the base could have been secured first...

2 bases back, yet they pull a tank. But didn't check map to see if it was actually clear? If it wasn't a LA, it would have been a stalker cloaker with a powered knife.

Its always nice to see well informed people contributing to a discussion.
You are not among them.
C4 ignores directional armor and always has.

This is an L2P issue. If an infantry sneaks up to you unnoticed and has time to toss out some C4 and retreat to a safe distance without being killed or spotted, you just got outplayed. End of story.

If one can just throw C4 over a rail and have it land on your roof before you can react, you ****** up long before that ever happened.

Hmm...

Why does it sound so wrong that a tank is advised to behave like a rabbit that has the dogs set upon him just for the POSSIBILITY there could be infantry around.....

So if some guy I can't see does something I can't notice I ****** up because I should have noticed?
Thats just the peak of ********.
You're basically saying that in order to not be ****** over you have to be psychic/Jedi/Sith and anticipate the position of all enemy infantry.
If you can't do that you're "outplayed."

I say let's make it fair - drop C4 cost to 50 a brick and let them pay in advance. If they don't notice the tank or the 40 enemy infantry players before they get killedthey got "outplayed" too.

C4 la here

Unless you want to spend all your time watching out for us, deal with it.

Just like infantry who can either play the game or keep a watch out for tank shells coming their way.

You cannot have both

Enjoy.

Also op if you watch you'll see the vs la in the vehicle bay before you even spawn it.

L2p.

I think this thread is straying from the question the OP emphasized, i.e., why can enough C4 be readily available to smash a tank without additional assistance?

I will buy the notion that the tank driver was "at fault" if there is something in the video that can be pointed to that was absolutely wrong and could not be explained by being safe. The driver pulled a tank but, by the time he left the Terminal menu, an enemy Liberator that hadn't previously been visible on the map appeared (and would possibly have not been visible or nearby had the driver took the time to run out front to check visually then run back to the Terminal). At that point, the Vehicle was going to be pulled, so the driver held back at the entrance once he had control of the Vehicle. The Liberator, by that point, crashed into the ground and was destroyed and, at the same time, there was a kill marked in the feed. At least one person aboard the Liberator probably died; but, the Vehicle being a three-seat unit, he looks up to check if anyone bailed. He pauses due to model-load delay (because anyone bailing would have been in the vehicle previously, their player model needs time to load). Unable to locate anyone who bailed he decides to move forward. And explodes.

I may be projecting on the driver's state of mind a lot, but I'm also describing what was running through my mind as if I were putting myself in the driver's position. According to the cone of probability, the target was further away from the tower than the landing pads at the time, so having bailed seems like a the most likely possibility and the cautious behavior was valid.

If any and all of these considerations are wrongheaded, then a redress of more valid options that should have been explored, starting from the point where the driver had exited the Terminal, would be appreciated.

Tanks don't frequently appear from out of nowhere from the perspective of Infantry.

Is that visible on the minimap? what's the timesteamp on the video?

i dont see anything wrong in this video. sometimes, if im in a good fight and i get pissed by the hostile tanks that spam theire he ammo at our base i will check the minimap, get me some friends together and then we will pull a val and start c4 drops to get rid of those campers. sooner or later they start to learn that they are not welcome.
and the logic: 450nanites dont equal the c4 cost does really not work in this game. ask all the 450nanites maxes that die to 1c4 or just to primary weapons or rocket launcher that dont have any cert cost. you pull those vehicles because its easyer to survive and to get kills within them thats what you are paying for nothing else. if someone takes the risk to still face you or outplay you its simply part of the game. so the only thing you can say is the higher the nanite price the easyer it is to survive hostile attacks.

Visible within the first 3 ish seconds.

As he selects the vehicle, watch the middle of the vehicle bay and see the purple dorito. Keep watching until you see it if needed.

The ops situation is that of someone who just expected there to be noone and he expected to be safe at the base AND stopped still to check for enemies.

Vehicles appear out of nowhere because rendering. I know that's not all the time but LA's do no "appear out of nowhere" either.

Sorry, I just can't see it if it's there. I've adjusted the quality setting on the video a few times to try and correct any display imperfections but, if there's a red dorito in the tower itself, it's lost in the sea of blue icons that overlap the area. Can anyone else see it?