Next Patch: Fix the vehicle game

Looks like you really want ot believe that's true. But it's not.
So please stick together (whatewer you call that situation when my HE shell kills 3-4 instead of 1) as tight as possible.

wahwahwahwahwa... I just spent 2 hours getting farmed by Magriders. Shut up

Lightnings are not brawler tanks by nature. Applying them as primarily a lone brawler tank and succeeding a good deal of the time is a quickly retreating art. Even in our predecessor game, Lightnings lacked basics that allowed them to go toe to toe with strong medium battle tanks. Assault Buggy AV and Furies (Flash prototype) could still tear into you, especially since many of their weapons lacked drop and could be aimed directly over greater distances and, importantly, those vehicles were very capable of chasing you down. The most appropriate uses for Lightnings were hit and run tactics, support fire, and light artillery.

As mentioned above, Assault Buggies (into which our current Harasser has become a dump vehicle) were capable of being Lightning counters due to their engagement control and weapon accuracy over range. The TR Assault Buggy was the exception in that it still had to get close because it's weapon had then-unchracteristic projectile drop (VS and NC weapon systems were straight fire). The best counterplay your have against any Harasser is that your weapon shoots over a long distance; this is strongest against a Vulcan Harasser, as it has to clear that distance to deal substantial damage to your Lightning, as opposed to the Saron-H and the Enforcer-H which can be push against your Lightning from exceptional ranges.

It still should have never received the Prowler Vulcan's magazine expansion.

I can't do anything about Liberators for you. Equip Vehicle Stealth (oh, you already have) and look to evade well in advance of a Liberator that spots you rather than engaging it.

But the fight goes on. That is when you should realize that your Lightning should not be engaging medium battle tanks haphazardly, even if you manage to land the first shot. Vehicle combat is much more drawn out that Infantry combat so minor tactical successes are less meaningful if you do not seek new tactical advantages.

If you want to solo, and if when in a pack, you need to change your perspective of the Vehicle. Don't think of the Lightning as if it were a predator. Think of the Lightning as if it were a scavenger.

Btw:

Like what game?

I think I found the heart of the problem...

I dont see the problem with what he said.

I am also a solo player, i have the same loadout only i use Rival instead of racer. so i can turn on a dime when in sudden need to do so..

to OP though you must need to learn how to aim a bit better, i dont normally have any trouble murdering harrassers with my lightning, even if they try and face tank me, unless they get the jump on me (which is unlikely) or im already in a fight with somebody else. they are destined to die to my AP cannon.

Ahm i dont think so. If i want to drive with the zerg i can go pull an MBT and even then the Magrider really isnt a strong Vehicle when it comes to massive Tank vs Tank battles, cause you need to use your mobility to dodge single shells and flank the enemy which is the exact opposite of a massive tank zerg. Same goes for the Lightning, it has surprisingly low stats apart from its a bit higher-than-average movement speed.

Spawn one base behind, pull an MBT/Lightning and see how they explode.

OK, so i should try to look for targets more carefully and not just shoot into the first tank that presents its back to me? I think ill try to do it, hopefully it wont just be a great waste of time^^

That is the main problem with Liberators. No tank can deal with them (and theyre not that terrible at farming infantry and medium-skilled pilots either).
Another problem is that the nature of how Prowlers and Vanguards are designed allows them to more easily drive in packs/zergs (not saying that VS tank zergs dont exist) due to their high alpha-damage and greater sustainability while Magriders on the other hand are meant to be used strategically, you are meant to flank an enemy thats not paying attention to you, get away fast if youre spotted and usually drive alone or with 2-3 friends. And that is where the Liberator is just super strong cause if he knows how to fly there is no way you can hit him with the saron even with multiple Magriders and kill him.
The Lightning - imho - has the same role, just for a solo player.
Im not saying Liberators shouldnt exist at all (even tho i DO think there is too much AV in this game) but as they are now they are frustrating to play against.

Are you saying that the game should let you win, with a weak vehicle, because a much stronger vehicle didn't notice you sneaking up on them?
Maybe the big bad Vanguard doesn't have to look around all the time, maybe they do not have to worry about some lonely little lightning sneaking up on them, .. maybe you were not the superior one at all.. maybe the Vanguard knows that they have plenty of time to react, if anyone shows up behind them.. because they are in a big bad Vanguard.
You did NOT play better, you only thought you had the better position.. you were overeager.. greedy.. smelled the victory.. where none was to be had. You did not catch them off-guard , they did not need to be on guard ...

Perception of ones skills is usually lopsided.. As Mike Tyson once said: "Everyone has a plan - until they get punched in the face."

You just played the Lightning wrong, you stuck around to trade fire with a Vanguard ?? WHY?

Sorry, but this scenario is NOT a vehicle game issue.. it is only your issue with learning how to play the Lightning.

No, you actually don't. Lib can tank all the damage you throw at it and gib you while picking the nose even if they start 600m away. It takes way too much time to chip lib's HP away with skyguard. They know you cannot alpha strike them in any way so they take it easy, counting on the hp pool to carry them.
I literally cannot comprehend why skyguards are so pathetic against liberators. It's almost like sniper infils against maxes, the difference being infils are not supposed to be a strong counter to maxes while skyguards have zero utility outside of AA. It's going to work, somewhat, as long as there is huge airgap between the two of you, but once you get rushed it's gg right there.

My subjective experience is that you actually have better chance (still small) with AP against libs trying to gank you with low flyover. Just swerve rapidly in an attempt to throw off the tankbuster aim and buy some time, land these APs on a huge target. Also solid alpha deals more psychic damage than plink-plink-plink-plink, so they might second guess and start panicking.

well, i found SKYGUARD really good against Vulcan-H..

I might be wrong Colonel, but if one of THOSE shoots a tank in the *** the tank is propably out of the fight.

I think most people would prefer dying in 4.4 seconds and maybe at least jumping out to blowing up instantly.

Shhhhh. I like it when lightnings sneak up on me.

LOL, that was funny.. . thx., needed the laugh in the office.

I like the ones that pull a viper lightning, in a surrounded base, just to drive a kamikaze run at all the enemy standing outside of their base.. those players blow up in mere seconds from all the fire they take.. I never understand why anyone would do that.. but it always puts a smile on my Prowler's golden snowman..

The lightning certainly needs a cost reduction. 350 is far too much for a some-what crappy tank. 250 sounds fair.
The only time the lightning really matters is esamir and you don't have the tech.

You can try using more returns in your paragraphs, like they do in books.
Apparently it's you who hasn't touched a book recently.

. Vulcan has to get close to kill stuff efficiently and is probably about the only ES thing that isn't nerfed to bejeezus and is actually good, also they can be easily countered, you are supposed to be always on the move in a Swagrider and always watch your flanks and activate the shield when needed in a Vanguard and be aware in general in any vehicle you are in. Liberators are OK as-is actually. Thought the same thing you did but in the end i realized it is actually hard to pilot, let alone to solo-lib. Counter-wise i completely disagree. A smart tanker can avoid almost every single threat that presents itself to him, you just need awareness. What needs to be buffed, though, is the HEAT/HE, it's trash and it is completely obsolete to AP. If they buff that to the pre-nerf state, I would be satisfied. And now when i think about it, i realized that most of these balance/nerf/buff threads (including those made by me) are pretty pointless. I thought liberators were OP, then i learned to avoid/destroy them. I thought Orion/Betelgeuse was OP, then i countered them. I thought tanks were OP, same story. Nothing is imbalanced in this game (Well, except Ravens) but when you play the game more you will realize it wasn't some OP bull$#!t, it was me (or in this case, you) who didn't think how to counter those threats or how to avoid them. Long story short, it's a L2P issue, don't be sad though, you will get good over time and (hopefully) come to same realization as me .

If you're talking about the snubby 20mm Vulcan, that is unlikely to really do any damage to an MBT (could possibly mess up a light tank like a Lightning). Large rotary cannon like the 30mm GAU-8 can destroy tanks... but those are massive weapons larger than a small car:



Today a Light Tank like the Sprut can resist 23mm cannon fire to the front. And that's cannon, not simple projectiles. I'd imagine in PS2 where 20mm counts as a HMG and 75mm is the new 25mm that the 20mm Vulcan-H is pretty puny.

If you're talking about a TOW missile, that would mess up a light tank pretty much anywhere and would probably be a very bad day for MBTs along the rear arc. And yes, that would be bad for tanks... and in that world pretty much everything would have a very low TTK. All things considered though given how much more quickly everything else would die, tanks would not be too poorly off.

And that's if the TOW hits... if a tank has an ADS running, it is unlikely that the TOW will hit at all!



Of course that's already being used in the 21st century... by the 29th I think tank ADSs will be advanced enough to pre-detonate rockets while they're still in the tube.

Merkawa looks so damn sexy unlike all this crap we have in game (except Magrider and Mosquito, these are fine).

I meant the thing the buggy on your first picture had. I assume that was a TOW, so what you said is pretty much what I expected.

If tanks were actually capable to defend against Harasser attacks in PS2 I would expect some annoyed engineers to to weld a ramming spur to the Harasser or something. Seeing as you don't really die I mean.

As far as your comment about Liberators goes -- have you ever tried a skyguard? Only lightnings can have it -- and it destroys liberators much like the vulcan is killing lightnings....

A lot of people have said skyguards suck. I am a lib pilot on my alt -- and let me tell you -- they do not. Not only do they hurt, they explode! We can't see your tank half the time when we are getting hit. I have NEVER won a fight against 1 skyguard lightning and 1 walker sundy, or 2 skyguard lightnings. Seriously, if there is a lib messing you up grab your skyguard -- get 1 other person with a skyguard so run with you -- and you two tanks will own the skys.

As I've demonstrated before, a Vulcan Harasser has a 4.4 second TTK against Lightnings.

A Liberator resists 35% of Skyguard flak damage. Skyguards do 60 damage per hit, reduced to 39. A Liberator has 5,000HP (more than an MBT), so it would take 129 shells to kill. Because a Skyguard shoots 8 rounds per second, it would take over 16 seconds for a Skyguard to kill a Liberator. Plus a 3 second reload so it would take 19 seconds.

On the other hand...

A Liberator's TB cannon does 334 damage per shot. A Lightning resists 32% damage to the rear and another 55% damage due to weapon type. This reduces each shot to 102.204 damage. The Lightning has 3,000HP so it would take 30 shots to kill the Lightning. A Tank Buster shoots 10 rounds per second (it actually fires off two shots at once), so it would take about 1.5-3 seconds to kill the Lightning. If the Liberator missed once, it would just add in a 3.5 second reload to bring it up to 5-6.5 seconds.

6.5 seconds... 19 seconds... not much of a contest.

As most pilots will tell you, Skyguards aren't meant to kill you. They are only in the game to "deter" you from staying around and farming indefinitely.