[Vehicle] Vanguard OP

My fellow Mag driver and I (each in our own mag, no gunner, we are experienced), went up against an Vanguard (1 Halberd gunner). Over multiple encounters, each time only one of us survives on a sliver of HP. Largely because of the Van's better firepower, shield, and fast traverse speed(turning speed) making flanking or circling nearly impossible.

Vanguard AP - 2075 dmg, 4s reload
Magrider FPC - 1865 dmg, 3.75s reload (barely any faster)

Titan-150 AP @ 275m/s
Supernove FPC @ 225m/s

Oh and also: Vanguard Shield absorbs 2,000 directional damage which is equivalent to half of the tank's health.

From these basic stats you can conclude that Vanguard has better firepower and protection in every way. Hell, you can even say it has good agility also. Pretty much the only way for a Mag to beat a Van is to circle it and hit it's rear, but it is impossible to do so because the traverse speed of the Vanguard is way to high for such a well protected tank. Also because, the Mag has no turret so it has to strafe to keep the gun on target, much slower circling with forward speed.

What I Suggest:

• Increase the Vanguards AP reload speed from 4s to 4.25-4.50
• Slightly decrease its traverse speed (turning speed).

hahahahah

the worst performing tank (even before the shield nerf) is OP. LOL.

You can be the best player in the world but you´ll lose every showdown against equal skilled players in a vanguard. Simply because it has more health with that shield.

And no, you cant say it has good agility^^ Its fast yes. Youre faster but 5-8mph difference will still kill you. Normally Magburn should get you away but everyone dies if vanguards get to close with vehicle stealth.

Yes, I'm not saying nerf shield. I'm saying increase the reload of the AP cannon by like 0.25s to 0.50s because of its high alpha damage. Also because it's the tank with the most armour and protection, it should have a slower traverse speed.

[Edit] Also, it wasn't 1 vs 1. It was 2 vs 1+gunner. They still managed to destroy like 1.7 of us.

Sounds like your not as good as you think, sorry. If you see a VG shield then move out of LoS for 6 seconds don't stand toe to toe, In my Maggy I run circles around VG's and how two of you in your own MBT's couldn't get one of you in a flanking position sounds more like player input error than a VG being OP'd.

Seriously...

AP Cannon VKPH Statistics
Prowler- 13.17
Magrider- 11.47
Vanguard- 10.25

HEAT Cannon VKPH Statistics
Prowler- 6.15
Vanguard- 5.5
Magrider- 5.4

HE Cannon KPH Statistics
Prowler- 46.04
Magrider- 44.53
Vanguard- 33.65

Really the only thing that the Vanguard isn't worst at is killing vehicles with HEAT rounds... which most tankers know is really just silly that any tank is running HEAT and not AP.

You scrubs are balancing the wrong way, you guys need to buff your abilities. Suggestions:

• Omnidirectional Magburner
• Magjump :3
• Magrider has ~50% universal resist rather than directional resist.
• Lockdown lets you pivot at a reduced rate.
• Lockdown becomes an activatable buff, on a timer.

The goal is to remove the downside of using your ability if possible. If a Vanguard panics and hits shield he doesn't hurt himself. Magburner and Lockdown will get you killed if you're a potato or unlucky.

edit: worst performing cause NC is potato tier

This is working as intended. The Vanguard does two things: Straight up 1v1 brawls with other tanks, and wide, open field combat. And that's literally all it can do well (unless you want to snipe aircraft, hueh hueh). Prowlers are going to dominate anywhere they can get an altitude advantage, or opportunities to strike from unexpected angles. Magriders are much more capable of getting behind enemy lines and causing serious damage that way. That said I do think the Magrider's main gun needs a tiny bit of a buff, as it's DPS is actually less than the Lightning's AP without any real benefits, except higher alpha damage, and the tank's mobility only provides an advantage if the enemy either cannot aim well, or you're a god with Magburn usage and timing.

Asymmetrical balance is asymmetric. If you want totally fair tank battles, grab an AP Lightning on Esamir.

Can't get "out of way" in plain Indar desert when VG charges and face hugs your mag. Turn around and flee(no magburner loadout) show my rear armour? VG was hitting 1 of us while halberd was hitting other.

the worst performing tank don't needs nerfs.


Yes the vanguard have best alpha, high velocity and tought armor, but doesn't have the swagrider evasive and hill climbing ability (yay mobility is OP, see old ZoE or 0.75 ads move mult weapons), nor the firepower of prowler.


Fun fact:

according to data, even with improved armor and shield, vanguards dies in average faster than magriders.

Looks like magrider dodging ability > vanguard armor + shield benefits.

No magburner, no gunner. Are you even really trying.

The vanguard is not OP. When driving a mag rider just do circles around the vanguard or just surprise him up the ***. To be successful in a mag rider it depends on your strategy and how good you actually are.

Oh but we shouldn't let statistics get in the way of our feelings about how UP the lockdown mode is (the most idiotic statement ever) and how OP the shield is.
Thanks for backing me up. I am too lazy to actually copy paste the stats here myself.

Let's see:
DPS of the Vanguard canons is higher, but only slightly.
DPS of the Halberd should be around the same as the Magrider (haven't calculated this).

Total health of the Magriders: 8000 health, with the ability to flank for extra damage.
Total health of the Vanguard, assuming you deal 2000+ damage within 6 seconds: 6000 health.

Vanguard has a higher maximum speed, but much, much slower turning speed. The Vanguard is the easiest tank in the entire game to encircle/flank because of this. Any other tracked vehicle has better turn ratios to prevent flanking. Also you completely ignore that there's two of you, one can be the flanker, the other can stay in front.

The Vanguard has no right to win this battle in any way, shape or form. You guys have similar DPS but you can easily increase it through flanking and even seat-switching if you time it right.

Yes. per minute you fire 60/4=15 shots. 15*2075=31125 damage per minute or 518,75 damage per second.
Magrider fires 60/3,75=16 shots. 16*1865=29840 damage per minute or 497.33333 damage per second. This isn't a lot of difference.
Halberd! 60/3,25=18.46153 shots. 18.46*1000=18461.53 damage per minute or 307.69 damage per second.

Let's add those DPS's shall we?
Vanguard team deals 518.75+307.69=826.44 DPS.
Magrider team deals 497.3333+497.3333=994.6666667 DPS. Magriders win! Well, due to armor resistances being slightly better on the Vanguard (this only makes about 1 shell difference, but only when shot in the side), the DPS would about equalize between Magriders and Vanguard.

It's not just about the gun, it's also about the chassis it's build on. Vanguard has the advantage of slightly better armor and faster shells, sure, but that's where it's advantages about end. Magrider has stable firing while moving, can move over rough terrain the other tanks can't even think off, and have far better flanking abilities than any other tank.

Magrider doesn't have a turret, yes, but you forget something: the strafing. A good Magrider can strafe and avoid shots, In good hands that ability can avoid more damage than the Vanguard shield. Also because the Magrider can move, strafe and shoot at the same time with barely any loss of stability while the Vanguard has his aim foiled by the tiniest change in terrain. Not to mention that the ability to strafe and only fire when the strong front armor is aimed at the enemy is a huge advantage in 1v1 scenario's, especially 2v1 scenario's like this.

So from these basic stats we can conclude that you have a completely subjective and warped vision of how the Vanguard works. Look at the statistics of the Vanguard tank and you'll see it's about last in almost every field you can choose, the few places where it's the best it's only marginally better.

There is one redeeming factor if you look more detailed at these stats.
The Vanguard is a close second to being the best MBT killer. The Prowler AP still beats the Vanguard AP, but not by much.
Still, even then the Magrider gets more other vehicle kills and the Prowler simply beats the Vanguard in every single turn, sometimes by a small margin, but they do beat it.

And you lost? The Vanguard should have concentrated it's fire. You two guys lost because you fled, you should simply have concentrated fire on him and crushed him. You could easily have done it from the situation you explain.

A single 2/2 Magriders is better than 2 1/2 magriders.

Stop using the magrider like a tank, we have less armor than Vanguards and less DPS than Prowlers. We cannot hold up in a fair fight.

SO DON'T FIGHT FAIR.



As for people who complain the Vanguard is under performing.

+Best Armor
+2nd Best DPS (and prowlers have to hit two shots in order to maintain best dps)
+2nd best projectile velocity (after a lock-down prowler)
+Smallest Frame (Magrider is taller & longer, prowler is taller and wider, the vanguard is wider than a magrider and longer than a prowler but the height does make a pretty significant difference when using terrain for cover)
+Best Ability (arguable I know, but 2000 health on demand kicks the **** out of a 1 second boost, and lock-down is good but situational)
=Faster than Magriders & Prowlers while going downhill, slower while uphill, Faster than Magriders on even terrain
-Slow Acceleration

The tank isn't the one performing poorly.

Least - scoring - tank - of - all - three.
End of discussion.

yeah sure it's the people using it. I guess when ZOE was OP as f it was because all the players using it were just THAT good. and after the nerf the players just got worse, right?
doesn't have the best ability by far. lockdown is far superior. and it isn't situational. all tanks already pick good spots, park there and fire away. the lockdown goes perfectly with that. only the magrider actually does better when it keeps moving.
best armor? a very small benefit that is completely outclassed by prowler DPS and magriders ability to completely avoid fire at a distance.
and if anything having 2 shots is an advantage even if you miss one you can still deal half damage and then reload. in a vannie you will sit there for 7-8 seconds doing no damage.


Stats don't lie. The vanguard is underperforming. it was underperforming BEFORE it got nerfed. That is a simple fact. VKPH,KPH,SPH no matter what you look at it's worse. It is completely outclassed by the prowler.

The only thing I would concede when it comes to MBTs is that the Magburner needs to be omnidirectional. (maybe weaker going to the sides or backwards).

Vanguard is not OP or UP. how you do in one has to do with skill and teamwork. Prowler kills more but also dies more, it's a tank destoryer platform, vanguard is a brawler and a reasonably effective artillery piece and it has a all round ES ability that ward against all forms of damage upto 2000HP.

It's slow and has poor turning and reverse speed true, but if you want more kills you have to play smarter then a vanguard driver especially in a magrider.

If you want to win as a vanguard you have to have good accuracy if you want to win as a magrider you need to play smart, have good aim and have good dodging ability. magrider is an evasion tank, vanguard is a brawler that soaks up more damage via shield and frontal default armor. Prolwer is a tank destoryer artillery piece that can do fairly well at mid range with good accuracy.

Vanguard weakness is speed, turn rate and reverse speed.
Magrider weakness is it requires more skill and tactics then the other two and it's gun is the stug like configuration and not turreted and can only see in front of it and it scales it's mobility badly with it's kind in numbers in a confined space.
Prowler weakness is short ranged fighting and mobile fighting where our ES has no synergy in mobile fighting like shield and magburner does.