Ravens still obviously superior to other AV MAXes by large margin

Everything wented bitters from implementations

This is somewhat hilarious.

Ravens are not broken anymore.

Only issue with Ravens is the same one with Lancers / Vortex's , sometimes Fractures and that's a render issue ..

No weapon .. MAX, Infantry should be able to hit a vehicle from out side the firers render distance ... If that distance is 300m then that should be the hard cap maximum range for all Infantry G2G AV ... ( Air is trickier )

Until that render issue is addressed none us know what tweaks the weapon might need after wards .. So rather than keep herp derping for blanket Nerfs .. First get one of the real issues looked at..

Thank you.


Out of Render distance infantry AV should be solved first & then see where balance goes from there.

Totally .. The goal posts are set in one place then and all factions are equal in range .. We can then see what could need nerfing and what could use buffing.

Bit hard to judge how something might be performing if it's performance is enhanced by being invisible to it's target..

Hey, to really see how awesome the Vortex is you need to be on high ground with absurdly long ranges to your targets. Not even the Raven can hit you then, but you can certainly reach out touch ... everything. More than one sniper has realized this much too late.

Cherry picking data that only supports your side, only strengthens my argument. When you look at the overall stats it becomes pretty obvious the Ravens are OP. And this is from someone who uses them.

just what?
I'm not a fan of KPH statistics because if a faction has 1 good weapon and other pretty much meh player will distribute its usage in a different way when compared to other factions, but if you try to state that ravens are not unbalanced posting OoD statistics at least read them right lol.

I'm not cherry picking anything, that's the data, those are the actual sunderer kill results between the three MBT's over the last 30 days.

You say the ravens are OP...OK, please define OP for me?

Really you think I am not reading the statistics right and you think 1 "meh" player is going to influence the results, when the results included the entire population of the game...

I will ask you as well...In order for us to determine if something is OP, then we must look at the actual statistics, what statistics would you like to use? And please define OP?

As I have stated, the Ravens are not OP, but rather under powered, when we look at pretty much every single source of AV weaponery in this game. I also think both the Vortex's and especially the Fractures are also under performing. The only issue IMO with the ravens is they where able to engage vehicles out of render range, and that has been fixed...

How many vehicle kills per hour is OP? How many Infantry Kills per hour is OP?

For something to be OP, in a FPS means it is killing more of something, then comparable weapons. I do not consider a 9.5 Vehicle Kills per hour OP. That being said I think both the Fractures and Vortex's need to be buffed...

Perspective!!!!

Raven Maxes - 9.5 VKPH
AV - Turret - 9.7 VKPH
AP MBT's - 11.5 VKPH
AP Lightening - 12.5 VKPH
ESF Hornets - 16 VKPH
C4 - 20 VKPH
Vulcan/Enforcer Harasser - 22 VKPH
Tank Mines - 69 VKPH

Are the Ravens more effective then Vortex's and Fractures? Yes, so lets buff them...

AV max Units cost 450 nanites/Use and out of all of the AV options available to players, they are the least effective at killing vehicles...They are not OP, unless you compare them to the other worthless AV Max units, which need a buff...

oops

I'm pmuch with Wrel on this.
to me ravens are the strongest AV weapon in the game currently, they can hit from behind cover, they can hit object that are not in LoS, they have pinpoint accuracy and no drop, good splash damage, short reload time, h4x range (not fixed btw, you have 50 meters of space where vehicles render to you and you don't render to them), they'r easy to use and have dramatically high dps. I mean, name a good quality for an AV weapon, raven has it. no downsides.
If they were balanced you'd see pmuch a 50% raven/falcon use.

I'm not a fan of nerfs btw, I'd like to have other weapons on par with them, but in this case I'm not sure I want every faction to be able to do what ravens can do to vehicles, just personal taste I guess.

Comes from a guy that can spawn a 2000+ dps-mbt. While VS and TR struggles with 500 dps MBT.

Ever seen what 3 Lockeddown prowlers does to enemy armor ?.

because yes, 3 magriders/vanguards get insta-rekt by an av turret lol.

A couple of days ago I tested the Fractures in companionship with the lock-down to see how well it really does. Suffice to say, even with lock-down (this made it very easy for the NC armor to shoot back and I had to spend loads of time undeploying and moving to a new position often enough) I experienced enough recoil, and the need to compensate for that recoil, that most of my shots missed. I'd hit a little to short, then aim higher, and hit to high, so it was a constant battle to adjust the minuscule difference in my aim that meant I would actually hit... the deployed Sunderer.

This was on Indar, in the hills looking down on Abandoned NS offices and the area leading to the next base over, and we are talking about 150-200 meters. The majority of my fire was a complete waste, and gave away my position with ease.

Keep in mind that this was on a STATIONARY target with lock-down that let's my shots fly faster and have considerably less recoil. I pay for those 'perks' with my immobility and inability to dodge incoming enemy rounds. Even then, hitting a stationary target was not easy and the result was inconsistent damage that the NC could easily fix. Trying to hit Lightnings shooting back became impossible once they started to just drive a little back and forth while adjusting their aim to hit me perfectly. One good hit to the chest and I had to undeploy and move before the second shot came in to finish me.

The only good thing I can say is, the lock-down is now fast enough that at least I could do that. But so what? My dedicated AV fire was inaccurate and ineffective even when using the ability my faction has to boost the AV weapons my faction has available.

Compare this with a Raven-MAX guiding the missiles to the TR sundy - or mobile targets for that matter - and if he takes return fire he can equip his shield and back away for repairs. Or VS, with the AV weapons they have you can pop ZOE (if you want to us the faction ability) and aim a hit-scan weapon boosted by the ZOE right to your target. Not exactly Raven-level absurd, but still better than stationary, inaccurate fire.

Fractures absolutely need a buff, as does lock-down IMHO. Only question is, can DBG actualyl buff it to be useful but not OP or will they have the same issues on this as SOE did?

C4, and Tank Mine KPH is entirely moot because of how they're not counted as equipped until you're using them. Probably a similar situation for AV turret.

Also, AV MAXes are more of a deterrent/ no-vehicle zone than they are a high VKPH play style. They can't chase a vehicle down like another vehicle can. They harass the hell out of them creating an area where you can't bring a vehicle without taking constant damage - and of course Ravens do this the most effectively because they're by far the easiest to land hits with.

So let's have some perspective before we jump to conclusions from overly simplistic stats.

What values are you using to make this claim?

Did you not see the kill stats I posted for other AV weapons in this game? Ravens are not the strongest AV weapon in this game, if anything they are one of the weakest, out of those that have a cost for use.

Hell, just look at the free stock rocket launchers...All of them have an avg KPH of 6.5
and then we have the ...
Lancer KPH - 9.6
Decimator - 9 KPH

C4, tank mines & AV turrets ,KPH, is determined by how many vehicles they are killing in an hour. It does not matter if they are equipped or not, it is total kills over a set time.

AV MAX's are a deterrent/no vehicle zone? That's a new one. No they can not chase down another vehicle, at least no better then a player using C4, Tank mines, AV turret, yet all of these Infantry based AV weapons out per perform the 450 nanite cost AV Max unit.

Overly Simplistic Statistics? In my experience those are the most accurate. This is a FPS game in which Player A tries to Kill Player B, The best and most effective way to determine how effective something is is to look at how many kills it is getting and compare that with other weapons in the game. It doesn't matter if the weapon does a triple reverse before it kills, at the end of the day how effective it is is determined by how many kills it is getting.

The Argument keeps getting made that the Ravens are OP or they are more effective then every other source of AV in this game, yet when we look at the kill statistics, that is not true in the least bit. Are they more effective then the other AV Max's? Yes, but when we compare how many kills these AV maxes are making compared to other AV weapons in the game we see all of them are sub par, and we should be looking to bring the Vortex's and Fractures up to at least the Ravens level, not bring the Ravens down.

No. Way.
I'd never pull my Fractures ever again if you made them as powerful as Ravens. This isn't about kills per measurement and very little of what we've discussed above has to do with that. The whole issue is a fusion of mechanics and statistics that, when taken together, create an environment that is completely unfair to Ground Vehicle users at ranges where even Ground Vehicles tend to come up short against each other. The Ravens probably wouldn't get many Ground Vehicle kills if Ground Vehicles actively avoided going near an area where they're active.

Demonstrably false.

I myself have a 3.57 kills/min with only 25 tank mine kills and 50h of engineer play time most of which I had tank mines equipped(but not "deployed") for.

https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428275156769321281/weapons
https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428275156769321281/stats



The math doesn't add up to a simple "how many vehicles they are killing in an hour". Otherwise I'd have something like 10,000 tank mine kills, not a mere 25.

Even if some of those 25 weren't vehicle kills, it just doesn't even close to adding up. And an average 69 VKPH should just be obviously fishy to anyone who's played the game honestly.

So, so much for accurate statistics.

You're also bringing up nanites, but a 450 cert MAX can kill an unlimited number of vehicles while tank mines and C4 cost resources per individual explosive and can only kill 1-2 vehicles per 1-2+ of them. OTOH I can camp in a tower with a MAX nailing vehicles and infantry alike for long periods of time. Regardless, they don't necessarily even outperform the AV MAX since as I've shown above the stats you're assuming things from aren't realistic.

Also, they've known deterrence matters whether or not you get kills for awhile now, it's what AA duty has been about for a long time and it's why they even added experience for it. Obviously kills per hour is not the be-all end-all of statistics.