[Suggestion] SMG/PDW, Scout Rifles and Empire weapon variant balance suggestions

IDEA REBALANCE


Scout Rifles

First generation:

SOAS: Mag size: 40, Ammo Pool 240, Fire rate: 700, Damage: 143 10m > 125 60m, Muzzle velocity: 420,
Reload time: 2,6s short, 4,1 long.

ARTEMIS: Mag size: 30, Ammo Pool 210, Fire rate: 650, Damage: 143 10m > 125 60m, Muzzle velocity: 500,
Reload time: 1,7s short, 3,5 long. Hip accuracy: Still: 2, move: 2,5.

STALKER: Mag size: 24, Ammo Pool 120, Fire rate: 500, Damage: 200 10m > 164 60m, Muzzle velocity: 480,
Reload time: 2,5s short, 4 long.


Second generation:

SHADOW: Mag size: 12, Ammo Pool 72, Fire rate: 300, Damage: 370 15m > 300 75m, Muzzle velocity: 600,
Reload time: 2.5s > 3.5s

HSR: Mag size: 20, Ammo Pool 100, Fire rate: 570, Damage: 200 10m > 164 60m, Muzzle velocity: 550,
Reload time: 2,7s > 4s. (full auto)

NYX: Mag size: 15, Ammo Pool 75, Fire rate: 400, Damage: 334 15m > 250 75m, Muzzle velocity: 530,
Reload time: 2s > 3s

NS VANDAL: Mag size 15, Ammo Pool 75, Fire rate: 500, Damage: 300 10m > 250 75m, Muzzle velocity: 570,
Reload time: 2,6s > 3.8s




Smg


First Generation

AMISTICE: Mag size: 50, Ammo Pool 300, Fire rate: 896, Damage: 125 6m > 100 50m, Muzzle velocity: 370,
Reload time: 2.25s > 3s

CYCLONE: Mag size: 35, Ammo Pool 310, Fire rate: 685, Damage: 164 5m > 125 60m, Muzzle velocity: 400,
Reload time: 2s > 2.92s

ERIDANI: Mag size: 40, Ammo Pool 310, Fire rate: 800, Damage: 143 6m > 100 50m, Muzzle velocity: 360,
Reload time: 1.9s > 2.7s

NS PDW: Mag size: 50, Ammo Pool 300, Fire rate: 780, Damage: 125 15m > 100 65m, Muzzle velocity: 410,
Reload time: 2.35s > 2.67s



Second Generation

HAILSTORM: Mag size: 100, Ammo Pool 300, Fire rate: 815, Damage: 100 6m > 85 45m, Muzzle velocity: 340,
Reload time: 3s > 4.5s

BLITZ: Mag size: 60, Ammo Pool 260, Fire rate: 850, Damage: 125 6m > 100 48m, Muzzle velocity: 370,
Reload time: 2.25s > 2.8s

SIRIUS: Mag size: 70, Ammo Pool 270, Fire rate: 800, Damage: 125 4m > 100 45m, Muzzle velocity: 340,
Reload time: 2s > 2.5s

MKV SUPRESSED: Mag size: 70, Ammo Pool 270, Fire rate: 800, Damage: 125 8m > 100 50m, Muzzle velocity: 370,
Reload time: 2.5s > 2.9s


(extended mags in first generation smgs give +15 ammo per mag.
Smg accuracy was not changed)



Empire Sniper Rifles

(these 3 sniper rifles have some balance issues so i try to give them new stats)


RAILJACK: Damage increase to 800. Can pierce trough multible enemies (if they happen to be in bullets flying path), deals bit more damage to lighly armored vehicles.

TRAP: Mag size: 20, Ammo Pool 100, Fire rate: 300, Damage: 250 15m > 200 85m, Muzzle velocity: 600,
Reload time: 2.5s > 3.5s (increased hip acc)

SPASHIFT: Charge level 3 damage increase to 750, creates small explosion when charged attack hits enemy/ground.



(so since i cant test these stats, id like to know what do you think about my suggested changes)

Bumping.

ASRs specifically need some pretty substantial buffs.
Refer to the thread in my signature for my ideas.

While your suggestion is good, i only see it as universal solution, whitch is not bad but Personly i thing that every weapon should be unique and not carbon copy of other empire weapon (sure there can be "similar" weapons but not exact freaking same ones)

Pretty mutch reason why my suggestions have differend stats between empires.

I wouldn't mind if they were different, but the issue with that is that if you try and make them much different you end up with what are essentially carbines and not marksmen rifles.

These sound a bit to much like carbines, not scout rifles unfortunately. Their roles are supposed to hardly overlap with SMGs at all.

Well yes, tecnically they end up being carbines, however the current scout rifles feel like nerfed carbines/rifles.
And considering normal stats + adding some empire traits to them i tecnically ended up with scout rifles that work like carbines.
However just like ColonelChingles noted the scout rifles dont match their desighned use, real scout rifles are bolt action and weapons like TSAR, GHOST and SAS-R are more fitting (or not realy but they are more fitting than current ones).

I tecnicly (in my mind) made the closer to battle rifles, whitch is more present in second generation scout rifles but first generation scout rifles reseble more carbines.

Another balance issue i see right now is under barrel grenade launcher.

Yes, it was op earlier but now it seems to be rather pointless, the direct hit damage (which is suppose to be 1000) does not seem to be doing its job. The indirect damage is OK but fire rate destroys it. 15 m requirement to grenade to explode also makes it really hard to use, and even harder because the grenade travels really slow and really low range.

(i mean, have you seen any grenade launcher users after the nerfs?)


I suggest:

1000 direct hit damage (as it is suppose to be)
600 indirect damage in 5m radius.
Reload speed 2,5
Grenade fly longer (but speed is same)
Grenade cant explode until it has traveled 6m

I don't think that the game would benefit from having more easy-to-use OHK weapons or a lower ttk.

Changing somethings weapon class, because it doesn't fit the description of it's current weapon class, doesn't fix it, or make it better... though in all honesty, finding out, for directive purposes, that those semi autos are counted as sniper rifles did upset me.

I'm so god damned glad I've auraxiumed the Stalker and NEVER need to use it again, ever.

Of course it does not make it any better, which is why i tried to rework their stats (allot)

I never found scout rifles the worst weapons because aside from smg they are only auto weapons infiltrators have. But when comparing to other weapons, they really seems the be one of the worst in the butch. (which is why i want to see rework on them)

If you are talking about nade launchers, they are currently really freaking hard to use and even with the buff it would still have really hard aiming time (but with the buff it would actually kill enemies on hit if player manages to hit with that slow moving/hard to aim grenade).

Without a firm set of physical laws for weapons to follow, any talk of balance is nonsense.

Don't mean to hurt feelings, I just think its a waste of time.

Its better idea to try, than letting it run its course.

(ok now this is getting out of hand, but i like to make few changes to many weapons)

PISTOLS


MAG-SCATTER: mag size increase from 4 to 6. Ammo capacity increased to 32.

DESPERADO: Mag Size increase from 14 to 24. Ammo capacity change to 72. Min range increased from 8 to 10.

INQUISITOR: Min Damage increase to 164. (now take in consideration that emperor still has better range so it won't become obsolete)

T4 AMP: Mag size increased to 40, ammo capacity increased to 200.

REPEATER: Ammo Capacity increased to 147

All Currently Suggested Ideas

Scout Rifles

First generation:

SOAS: Mag size: 40, Ammo Pool 240, Fire rate: 700, Damage: 143 10m > 125 60m, Muzzle velocity: 420,
Reload time: 2,6s short, 4,1 long.

ARTEMIS: Mag size: 30, Ammo Pool 210, Fire rate: 650, Damage: 143 10m > 125 60m, Muzzle velocity: 500,
Reload time: 1,7s short, 3,5 long. Hip accuracy: Still: 2, move: 2,5.

STALKER: Mag size: 24, Ammo Pool 120, Fire rate: 500, Damage: 200 10m > 164 60m, Muzzle velocity: 480,
Reload time: 2,5s short, 4 long.


Second generation:

SHADOW: Mag size: 12, Ammo Pool 72, Fire rate: 300, Damage: 370 15m > 300 75m, Muzzle velocity: 600,
Reload time: 2.5s > 3.5s

HSR: Mag size: 20, Ammo Pool 100, Fire rate: 570, Damage: 200 10m > 164 60m, Muzzle velocity: 550,
Reload time: 2,7s > 4s. (full auto)

NYX: Mag size: 15, Ammo Pool 75, Fire rate: 400, Damage: 334 15m > 250 75m, Muzzle velocity: 530,
Reload time: 2s > 3s

NS VANDAL: Mag size 15, Ammo Pool 75, Fire rate: 500, Damage: 300 10m > 250 75m, Muzzle velocity: 570,
Reload time: 2,6s > 3.8s


SMG/PDW

First Generation

AMISTICE: Mag size: 50, Ammo Pool 300, Fire rate: 896, Damage: 125 6m > 100 50m, Muzzle velocity: 370,
Reload time: 2.25s > 3s

CYCLONE: Mag size: 35, Ammo Pool 310, Fire rate: 685, Damage: 164 5m > 125 60m, Muzzle velocity: 400,
Reload time: 2s > 2.92s

ERIDANI: Mag size: 40, Ammo Pool 310, Fire rate: 800, Damage: 143 6m > 100 50m, Muzzle velocity: 360,
Reload time: 1.9s > 2.7s

NS PDW: Mag size: 50, Ammo Pool 300, Fire rate: 780, Damage: 125 15m > 100 65m, Muzzle velocity: 410,
Reload time: 2.35s > 2.67s


Second Generation

HAILSTORM: Mag size: 100, Ammo Pool 300, Fire rate: 815, Damage: 100 6m > 85 45m, Muzzle velocity: 340,
Reload time: 3s > 4.5s

BLITZ: Mag size: 60, Ammo Pool 260, Fire rate: 850, Damage: 125 6m > 100 48m, Muzzle velocity: 370,
Reload time: 2.25s > 2.8s

SIRIUS: Mag size: 70, Ammo Pool 270, Fire rate: 800, Damage: 125 4m > 100 45m, Muzzle velocity: 340,
Reload time: 2s > 2.5s

MKV SUPRESSED: Mag size: 70, Ammo Pool 270, Fire rate: 800, Damage: 125 8m > 100 50m, Muzzle velocity: 370,
Reload time: 2.5s > 2.9s


(extended mags in first generation smgs give +15 ammo per mag.
Smg accuracy was not changed)


Empire Sniper Rifles

Every Carbon copy sniper should have something from their empires:

Starting semi-auto snipers: TR should have the highest fire rate having one (with accuracy boost), NC should have bit more damage and best velocity, VS should have fastest reload and no bullet drop (no bullet drop isn't present right now with snipers)

[vs snipers gain infinite range but damage should decrease faster than other snipers in range.]

Same kind of balances should go to bolt action rifles too.


RAILJACK: Damage increase to 800. Can pierce trough multiple enemies (if they happen to be in bullets flying path), deals bit more damage to lightly armored vehicles.

TRAP: Mag size: 20, Ammo Pool 100, Fire rate: 300, Damage: 250 15m > 200 85m, Muzzle velocity: 600,
Reload time: 2.5s > 3.5s (increased hip acc)

PHASESHIFT: Charge level 3 damage increase to 750, creates small explosion when charged attack hits enemy/ground.


UNDER BARREL GRENADE LAUNCHER

1000 direct hit damage (as it is suppose to be)

600 indirect damage in 5m radius.

Reload speed 2,5

Grenade fly longer (but speed is same)

Grenade can't explode until it has traveled 6m

PISTOLS

MAG-SCATTER: mag size increase from 4 to 6. Ammo capacity increased to 36.

DESPERADO: Mag Size increase from 14 to 24. Ammo capacity change to 72. Min range increased from 8 to 10.

INQUISITOR: Min Damage increase to 164. (now take in consideration that emperor still has better range so it won't become obsolete)

T4 AMP: Mag size increased to 40, ammo capacity increased to 200.

REPEATER: Ammo Capacity increased to 147
BEAMER: Hip and accuracy aim increase.


VEHICLE WEAPONS

BASILISK
(this one is not so important to balance since basilisk is in good place right now, however it could use empire specific trades)
VS: No bullet drop, most accurate.
NC: Most damage and bullet velocity.

TR: Fastest fire rate and highest mag size.


KOBALT

No empire specific trades
Deals 10 damage to heavy armored targets (main Battle Tanks, Lightnings, Liberators, Galaxy's) Which is total 1000 damage per magazine (may change with armor types)


WALKER
Is now able to look down slightly (it can now aim ground targets better but still not as well as basilisk)
Reduced damage against tanks.


RANGER

Is now able to look down slightly.
Deals now damage against tanks (both with direct hit and flak explosion) (cant replace basilisk in terms of tank damage but is now bit more versatile)


MARAUDER
Deals 40 Damage to tanks per shot (400 damage per magazine)


C85-CANISTER
Deals 5 damage per pellet (60) to tanks, damage reduces on range. (600 damage per mag in close range)


PROTON II

Deals 30 damage per shot to tanks (360 per magazine)



(tank/harasser/sunderer weapon changes are because anti air weapons have been most of the time pointless and useless if there is no air enemies, Kobalt is anti infantry weapon but becomes pointless if there are liberators or tanks, empire specific weapons changes are to make them bit more useful outside the infantry fights.
Keep in mind that damage values are not perfect)

Why? Should weapons be adjusted due to power of argument?

No, weapons should be balanced just for the sake of gameplay and balance.

Can some balances suit everyone? no
Can you please everyone? no

Balance should never be trusted to one person or groups that have sertain mind set about weapons.

I created this topic just to talk about weapons that have been poorly balanced or dont have that faction uniquenes.
So i created balance suggestions that might work and see what other people think about them, what should change, what should not.

And leaving some of the weapons without any balancing would be waste of certs for everyone.

Without immutable laws of physics governing weapon performance, any talk of balance boils down to the writer's agenda. So, it is whoever argues the best/most that gets their way. Its nonsensical.

Are you talking about: 1. weapon fysics compared to realism? 2. weapon fysics compared to each other 3. Weapon balance (aka sidegrade agenda)

If every weapon balance would be done with arguin and not with actual testing and discussion we would not have anything balanced.

None of the above.

Weapon abilities based on a pre-set law of physics.

so do you mean bit same style like tf2 does?

every new weapon is build as a sidegrade to first weapon/starting weapons whith are balanced against other weapon types and classes.

(and every time there is a new kind of weapon that din't earlier exist it will be the first one and other weapons that are same kind will be its sidegrades)