[Suggestion] M3 Pounder needs its splash damage reduced

Hello Folks,

As an attempt for a constructive discussion , i start this topic about M3 Pounder.

So .... if i understand correctly.... made to be an AV weapon.

What i am wondering , is why this weapon needs that much splash damage , making it almost like you have two portables fury in a max suits.

At this moment , this weapon is clearely better at AI , doing insane killstreak for a very little learning curve. It is almost impossible to deal with it in close quarters when you are attacking a swarm with another swarm. (at least 48+)

So it clearely needs some works to balance it, and put it back at the place where it needs to be.

What i suggest is in two times.

- first, lower the splash damage , or splash zone. Maybe make it the same as the Vanu comet splash damage.
- second, upgrade a little bit the range , so the user can actually start to use it as an AV weapon.

I welcome all suggestions adding to the discussion, however let's face it : there is no point of discussing IF this weapon is OP or not ; point is : IT IS CLEARELY OVERPERFORMING AGAINST INFANTRY !

PS :
- pounder stats : http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/15001
Notice the lower death per user , and higher kill per unit , and kpu x
Notice the very high average KDR !!!

- comet stats : http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/17001
LOWER STATS EVERYWHERE

I do die way more to pounders than cyclers.
Possibly that also says a bit about cyclers too :/

I've done a lot of NC maxing.
I've done a fair bit of late with VS maxes (wow... the range!).

Both are great.

Not really ever done TR maxes to say whether they really are OP, or just that cyclers are fairly rubbish.

I have a suggestion as well.

Why we don't also look into http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/1924 and http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/1894

Or even http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/7525 and http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/7518

Which are both clearly overperforming its equivalents.

It has 125@0.6m radius, vanishing to 1@3m.
Using splash to kill Infantry is inconvenient. You would basically need to "just miss" every shot in your both magazines to kill an Infantry player with just splash. There's nothing for it.
Meanwhile, if it only had direct damage, it'd still kill in 2/4 volleys of direct hits, which is the sweet spot against Infantry as well. You basically need to land direct hits against Infantry.

You want to know why Pounders get a lot of Infantry kills? Because they're more CQC than either Falcons or Comets due to their drop mechanics (parabolic) and their rate of fire, and they're also the best anti-MAX MAX AV. It's not their fault that enemy MAXes tend to be surrounded by enemy Infantry as well. Against vehicles, they need longer exposure time to actually get the most out of the higher damage capacity of their larger magazines, and you can't do that with any meaningful Vehicles the way you can against Infantry.

Getting rid of their caomparatively generous splash? No problem. You're still not addressing the real reasons they don't get used as much against pure Vehicles and why they get a good deal of Infantry kills.

Two nights ago, I murdered a Valkyrie with a magazine of HEG at ~15m. That felt like an accomplishment. That's what using Pounders for AV feels like.

I absolutely don't agree. Reducing splash would actually make it impossible to aim at a wall , and kill a group of people hiding 1 meter away. This is pretty much totally OP in bio labs.

And yes the drop mechanic is awesome , and it shouldn't be removed.

It's in the name. M3 Pounder HEG. High Explosive Grenade. Underline High Explosive. But for balance reasons I can see your point.

As said, though, you need to land a significant portion of your magazine to not do more than pick off the wounded by splashing them, and flak armor completely confounds that strategy against anything that isn't wounded.

When you use Pounders against Infantry, going for splash is no different that using the Lasher for its splash, only you could never use it as successfully. Against Infantry, you need to go for direct hits or you're liable to get overwhelmed with small arms fire (and anyone smart enough to pull out their launchers). Against a group of Infantry, using Pounders is a lot like using NC MAX shotguns arms. The capacity isn't much too different, loading times counting, but you have to duck into cover more often.

The pounder's AI capacity and ability to indirect fire infantry while being able to act as short range AV from ground level or more effective AV from an elevated position like a turret mini-tower or elevated pillbox is why is is so popular.

it's got a good mix of AI and AV power reasonable good at both if you can aim well.

Give me dual pounders over chainguns anyday. rewards direct hits, allows indirect fire for non-zerglings is good close range AV and anti-max.

It is funny how people still cry about the pounders.TR MAX AI weapons perform worst when compared to the other empires. TR MAX AV perform worst against vehicles compared to the other empires.

Yes, the pounders kill more infantery than the other dedicated AV weapons, but they still are far worse at the job than AI weapons.

If TR would have something good for long range AV work and something for CQC AI work for the MAX, people would use it. Pounders are the middle ground of doing ok-ish AI and AV work. So they get used.

All SOE did with Pounders was fix their convergence issues. Then they nerfed the Fractures into the ground and our chainguns aren't exactly creme de la creme either. Pounders need four direct hits against a full health non-Flak infantry - I'd say that is reasonable and there is no OHK potential there (unlike Falcons).

Pounders being op is the last thing I'd ever expected someone to say. I use hybrid heavy cycler and pounder, and I like to go close range and use them against infantry, which will be outperformed by dual cyclers. That's fine by me, because I voted for versatility in the survey they gave every character. So how exactly is it OP? At long range, you need the skill to aim it like a mortar, and a bad one at it. Nerf the splash? What are you even thinking. What does the word HE comes into your mind? And to top things up, it is already underperforming as one, whether in AI role or AV role.

Pounders are fine other then their insane screen shake. Go try out the semi auto potato cannons. Against tanks they are pretty underwhelming without a good position. Against infantry they will get you killed easily of you over extend, and the splash is minimal.

Pounders are fine as is. I use them alot. I can tell you that splash damage is not that big of a deal. You have to land at least two direct hits on an enemy to get a kill. Mean while they are pumping lead into you. There friends are too. They are only really good in tight hallways. Leave them alone IMO.

As long Fracture suck balls the Pounder should not be nerfed.

The problem with the pounder is the same as the lasher. AoE weapons stack exponentionally. One lasher is a joke, 12 guys using lashers together is significantly more powerful than those same 12 guys using any other weapon. A single pounder MAX isn't that big of a deal, but when you start getting 2 or 3 together, it becomes hands down way better than any other weapon option out there in the right situations.

Luckily, C4, sticky and AV grenades are a thing, so there is a counter to groups of MAXes holding chokepoints.

Please not the Pounders.... Fractures blow and TR have the Striker isn't that enough of an AV nerf already ?

Pounders are the best performing for AI. But adversely they are the worst performing at AV. If you want to nerf the AI performance you need to seriously buff the AV potential of the weapon.

But overall they are balanced in there current state. They don't perform any better than AI weapons.

On the other hand, Ravens. Best performing at AV and almost giving the Pounders a run for there money at AI. That needs address far more seriously than the Pounders.

No we must buff all skill suit weapons so that the people using them can feel even more skilled

You are playing on Miller by any chance? Because the thing is: yesterday when someone mentioned this thread on TS will had a laugh. Then the shadow of anxiety darked our faces. Are you aware Sir that these 'overpowered' Pounders are the only thing we have in the arsenal against those Max crashes and infantry zergs in almost every 12-24 or 24/48 coming in in the last 30 sec. of a cap or a defense?
In my outfit we pull the Pounders when we see a lot of Maxes in our way. The slaughtering of infantry is just icing.
In my opinion the mass of Pounders appearing recently has a lot to do with self-defense and the quicker deployment of Lockdown.
But remember: then they are sitting ducks. And if they are not in lockdown but running through a corridor trying to 1v3 the splash damages yourself and also hits your engineer and the like.
And think about it: it's a costly Max. You should not approach it in CQC without the necessary preparation anyway unless maybe it's a Burster Max which will in the future get his AI effectiveness buffed as well.

Your suggestion to increase range is also not feasible because I already could fire the Pounders across the continent but I wouldn't have sight of what I am hitting then. Deviation is the main mechanic of the Pounder so range increase doesn't cut it. As mentioned before the key of using a Pounder against vehicles is skill and positioning BECAUSE of the lockdown mechanic.
And this would be my complaint here. You didnt think this through. This clearly indicates that you just want something to get nerved to have an easier time zerging close quarters. You should not do that in the first place. If you find a Pounder deployed trying to counter that behavior think about going more tacticool.

My honest suggestion would be to equip Flak armor and approach from an uncovered angle. Take out the support and the Max is done for.
My suggestion mechanics-wise would be to lengthen the deploy animation for Lockdown a bit and/or give it a cool down so one has to commit. But then again the latter would lead to more camping which is boring. A longer deploy animation would deal with most of the problems I see at the moment.
Remember: Pounder-Maxes are counter-Maxes. At least in my Outfit they are.

Wait, it has splash damage?