L-PPA needs a range nerf.

/signed (B/c the forum error won't let me upvote anyone right now)

What's good for the AV turret / Raven, is good for the Gander too
Disclaimer: No those changes haven't actually been passed beyond TEST yet, but they'll come in SOME form or another...

So your saying it's alright to spam from 500 meters away outside of lockon or flak range with no danger at all while the only way to counter it is to go deep inside enemy territory putting yourself in 100x as much danger. I'm not talking about any stat nerfs, all I'm proposing is to bring it in AA range so the things in my OP doesn't happen again, is that really something you won't agree too, it's a sensible change that the only people that will notice the difference is the ones that abuse it 500 meters away outside of AA range.

I'm fine with it inside 200 meters, I'm fine with it Inside 300 or even 400 but what I'm not fine with is it being 500 meters out with no way to retaliate against, is that something you you really can't agree too, or do some Vanu just want broken weapons that they can abuse.

So 400 meter range cap, inside lock-on distance for starters, won't be any weapons or stat changes.

It may be outside of Lock On range, but it's certainly not outside of Flak range. Flak range goes out to 999 just like LPPA currently does. I'm sorry that you're friends were unable to hit the Scythe in question, but that pilot had an equal opportunity of hitting you.

I dunno, have your Bursters crouch for better accuracy or something next time.

At that range, even crouching and semi-auto firing the Bursters for better accuracy, you're not going to get many shots within the flak burst radius frequently enough to cause it any kind of nuisance, if you can land shots at all. Bursters aren't designed for any sort of accuracy at those ranges (in fact, they have intentionally reduced capabilities for accuracy at those ranges) so any shots that do land are lucky. Semi-auto firing Bursters for even just a smidge more accuracy at distance is already stroking a lucky rabbit's foot. This is all assuming a relatively stationary target, at worst bobbing slightly for altitude. If the pilot is gently moving in any other sort of way then it's no longer a matter of aiming at him. There's nothing left but pulling numbers out of the RNG.

That doesn't mean you don't try to use AA against it; rather, it's just that it'll never work well.

100x Danger? Hyperbole? Or, a need for easy ESF kills? On Connery, VS ESFs don't swarm like the TR Mosquitos. It is pretty easy to fly at max altitude and swoop in to kill a loitering L-PPA Scythe. A Skyguard can pull up from an adjacent hex. I frequently fly at max render range for L-PPA or Dual Photon Pods and still get lots of damage from Sundy, MBT, Galaxy guns, Skyguards, and Bursters.

The range is an integral part of the weapon and faction trait. A lot of VS weapons (Vortex, Lancer, Lasher, Phase shift, Photon Pods) have extraordinary range and limited bullet drop. There have been many calls for nerfs there. Your argument is similar to people asking for nerfs on Harasser (with Vulcan-H) speed or Raven range. Some traits feel OP but are integral.

Like I said, L-PPA is situational. What percentage of your deaths are from the L-PPA? The one time you parked on the cliffs over Tawrich to launch your Ravens at defenseless Magriders below?

Not necessarily disagreeing, but:
Your description is the old banshee with more splash-damage or at least pretty close. Not necessarily bad AA capabilities though, because those depend on the projectile velocity which you want to increase.

I run with my L-PPA to farm now that they've increased the render distance and I can tell you that the actual bases where it's viable are few and far between. Esamir around Jaegar's Crossing (between the biolab and Jaegar tower) are one of the few examples where it works relatively well.

For it to work, you have to be able to have a clear line of sight, be able to see at least 500m away, not have any AA turrets around (since they will butcher you up to 800m if you're sitting still), be far enough from an effective enemy airpad (because they'll bring ESF's within a couple minutes), and on top of ALL of this, be shooting at a base where control or choke points leave the enemy outside.

This formula leaves only a handful of bases that really work well. Hossin is mostly out of the question due to all the tree cover, Indar has too many towers (the AA turrets make it impossible to sit still long enough), and so you're left with Amerish and Esamir which both have almost no cover for ESF's and the Scythe is the god awful slowest, therefore you really have to be close to your warpgate.

That's about why the Jaegar area is really good because it's close to the warpgate, the control points are outside and easy to monopolize, and enemy airpads are another 200m away, giving you plenty of time to unload 2 mags, then bug out to the warpgate to repair and rearm (as well as spend enough time for the enemy air to leave or get wiped by the ground G2A launchers).

It shouldn't work at all, I could care less when or where it works but it shouldn't work at all period, it's a broken game mechanic that should be fixed no if ands or buts.

im fine with aircrafts being able to shoot outside of lockon range etc...they should be...if you cant hit them then you should get closer or get away from them.Get a aircraft and take them out, instead of standing there like a target on the ground.Sometimes people need to be more creative in the fighting role then complaining role..

Do you even play the game, AA has no where near the effective range of 999 meters but let's apply your logic to everything else, PPA [ground version] has a range of 999 meters all VS are just using it wrong and need to learn to play /S, go use AA for a change and show me a video of how successful you are with it a 600 meters, good luck cause your gonna need it.

Semi Hyperbole, he is 500 deep inside friendly territory spamming PPA with no danger at all, I as someone who has to kill him have to go deep into enemy territory without being seen to kill him while he is spamming away without a care in the world gating free kills.

Vanu's faction trait is science and technology and weapons that are subjected to drop and physics, having a broken mechanic is not your faction trait no matter how much you'd like it.

I don't want any stat changes, just to limit it within AA's effective range, say 300-400 meters.

Just an FYI, it happens way more then you think, the new meta for some VS to do is to sit at Howling Pass and spam PPA to Mao Southgate. There are many more spots that it can be done but since your VS and you don't have to deal with it why should you care am I right?

If you actually read my OP I did go get a A2A reaver to go find him, but that puts me a tremendous risk go deep inside enemy territory while he can do his spamming with no danger at all, tell me what's the risk in sitting 500 meters deep in enemy territory shooting at infantry with no possible way of fight back.

It's a broken mechanic and it should be fixed no if and or buts.

well your trying to enter enemy terf and get shot, thats not so strange.What if you had had someone with you, the problem could be solved, the VS was clever by using his own terf as cover.

So how do you expect me to kill him, AA doesn't reach that range and anything you do requires you to go deep into enemy territory, it's a broken mechanic and you just don't want to admit it.

Let's turn this situation around, Infantry now have AV/AA that can reach insane ranges without putting themselves in danger, I can guarantee vehicle users will be scream nerf nerf nerf, oh wait they did and that's why ravens, AV turrets, Lancer etc are getting fixed so why should the L-PPA be so special and not touched.

Just go read that other thread where the guy went 570 kills gunning for Liberator, because the trees of Hossin both prevent and break lockons, as well as provide instant cover if you need to retreat.

And again, AA has the exact same range as the LPPA. You're saying that the Scythe in question was about at 500m, which is actually plenty close to get a nice peppering from a Burster. While firing from 999 is possible in theory, it's a lot more difficult, and your Burster can still hit him, but 500m should be pretty easy to hit. Asking a PPA to get within 350 like you want is a death sentence. At least Reavers have the fastest Afterburners, and Mossies are naturally fast. Scythes have great 'maneuverability', as well as a stable hover, neither of which help you get out of lockon range.

I'm all for nerfing the 999 range, but I think it's a little silly to require a PPA Scythe to get within 350 max range, when to actually fire you'd probably end up being closer to 300 without increasing it's A2A effectiveness, as well as giving a boost to it's afterburners. 500-600m seems fair because that's still easily within Burster range.

My issue with your statement is in this thread: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...s-were-toned-down.211314/page-17#post-3071952

Pilots repeatedly suggest that the proper use of Flak is to wait till the enemy gets close if you are to have any chance to actually killing them with it. So what is the Maximum effective range of Flak in your eyes?

Killing them versus making them fly away? Simply flying away is the downfall of many pilots. How many times have you been on foot and died to some tree branches or something equally as silly? A slowly hovering ESF vs a single Burster? I dunno, I run Nanite Repair 4 currently, and I take enough damage at 800m to have to fly away. We had this conversation in my outfit last night, where it was determined that yes, you could land a few PPA shots from 900m (resulting in no kills), but that Bursters were also able to damage you. It's pretty easy to track where the PPA is coming from, so it's pretty easy to return fire with AA.

Now a Liberator or Galaxy? Those would need to be a bit closer to take enough damage to have to bug out, or they would have to be concentrated on. Libs aren't usually hovering at great range though, they simply have to maintain a clear line of sight for their gunner and then work on flying the plane, while their gunner manages firing accuracy.

Edit: The only way to really answer this question is through some legit VR testing.
-At what range does an ESF take enough damage from a lone 2xBurster Max to have to flee
vs
-At what range is the LPPA accurate enough to reliably kill people

Grabbing an AA mossie/reaver to take out enemy air??? Whaaa crazy idea, I know.

It is when every Infantry, MAX, and vehicle based Anti-Air asset is simply ineffective.

Skyguards, AA maxs, and lockons are not ineffective at all.

I guess bring the AI weapon effective range down to 300m? If infantry are rendering past that distance its probably a bug. I don't really see a reason not to fix an exploit-ish looking thing that is going on. I would be ok with it if you could strike back with AA, but AA at that range is either ineffective or doesn't work. Best you could do is pull an ESF and just ram them (guaranteed kill, all the time 60% of the time) or A2A fight them.