[Guide] Dunning-Kruger effect in Planetside

While I agree that many people suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect and should just learn to play. Many do not and their concerns and complaints are justified. Unlike Chess, Planetside has A-symmetric balancing and weapons that are unique in form and function to individual factions, so not every opponent has access to the same weapons.

It's a stretch to say that is the dunning-kruger effect. The dunning-kruger effect is basically when someone over-estimates their ability to complete a task because they are ignorant of the amount of knowledge and aptitude required to complete said task. Once they actually learn how it's done, they would be humbled but the amount of time, practice, and skill it takes to actually do it.

You are basically saying that people who complain about weapons have no clue how to actually use the weapons effectively. Care to explain how you've arrived at that conclusion?

Have you SEEN the average player play??

Could it be the Dunning-Kruger effect is often cited by players who think they are so awesome, nobody may criticize them?

Sadly, yes

If you want see the Dunning-Kruger effect in action, watch an episode of The Apprentice (I can't stand it myself, but the family like it).

Some players will blame anything but themselves if they're performing poorly in this game. Anything from the population chart on the map being wrong, the other factions' weapons being unfair, the person who killed them is using hacks/exploits... it's pretty easy to spot who does it. However in my experience they are by no means the majority.

I didn't know I could pull a board full of queens in chess, your comparison makes zero sense.

The analogy is flawed because in chess and other strategic games, one player has control over all the units on their side. While Planetside is a strategic game, and focuses more on the platoon, one player only controls one unit at a time.

So when, say, a Light Assault comes down from behind with a shotgun and kills you, on paper, he made the better choice of class and loadout. In chess that would be irrelevant because you have the exact same makeup of units as the enemy, and can control any one of them at any given moment. When you pick a loadout in Planetside, you are restricted to that loadout, at least until you reach a resupply terminal.

Also, strategy is not the only element in the game. For the most part, game sense and aiming skill will win you most fights. There are a select few weapons/vehicles/classes etc. that effectively make shooter skills irrelevant when fighting them. The go-to example here being shotguns: Even someone with very mediocre aim can beat an experienced player in a 1v1 if they have a shotgun and the other person has a rifle. Now there are many other factors balancing such weapons, but in this game, most fights happen at pretty close range. It's not easy to avoid a situation that would get you killed by a shotty.

Often I see the argument that "If X weapon kills you, it was your fault and you deserved it". And this is often untrue. Planetside, being an MMO, doesn't actually give players a lot of agency due to the scale of battles. You can be an MLG Pro at the game and still lose from many factors: The enemy outpopulates you, your team is not as coordinated, the other faction is using force multipliers in the form of vehicles and MAXes, etc. Do you really "deserve it" when the server pop is 40% one faction and 25% yours?

Now I'm not saying these things are inherently bad, all of this focus on team effort happens to be the game's biggest selling point. But it's completely understandable why people get mad at certain aspects of the game. It's because Planetside is not balanced on a competitive, player-based level. It's balanced on a larger scale than that. So yes, it all evens out (assuming equal pop), but let's not pretend that simply picking the right loadout for a situation is the epitome of skill.

/rant

No I'm not. I'm not talking about complaining over weapons, that's not what this is about. This video is about, very specifically, failure to recognize defeat. Please stop making things up and attributing them to me.

If another player had an item which instantly killed me at the click of a button from anywhere (nothing else required), and I subsequently called that item overpowered and skill-less, would it be the Dunning-Kruger effect?

If you say "yes", then you have no idea what it actually is. But I don't expect you to say yes.

If you say "no" because that item is literally overpowered and skill-less, then I propose another question to you.

As you gradually tone down that item and add some aspects that make require just a little bit more skill or a little bit more situational, at what point is it the Dunning-Kruger effect instead of me having a legitimate complaint?

Weapon is non sentient and cannot be skillfull or skillles. Would you consider your opponent skillless? If operating the weapon took absolutely 0 skill to use, other than the click of a button, you still would not have the information to judge the skill of your opponent.

But, then again, this is an arbitrary and hypothetical situation which is not mirrored in any games I know of - short of server admins typing kill commands in console, which isn't actual gameplay.

Furthermore you seem to misunderstand and think that complaining = suffering from a cognitive bias. That's not what the video is about. The video is about dying, whether the weapon is OP or not, and refusing to acknowledge that defeat.

Yes, and you are trying to make that into the dunning-kruger effect. In doing so, you are saying the player lacks the skill to use whatever is killing them. I had the shotgun example you gave in mind when I wrote that. Granted, it may not be weapons that kills them, it could be aim, reaction speed, planning, or something else, but so far you've only made a baseless assertion. You are basically saying that the person who complained does not understand the skill behind what killed them. Why? If someone says shotguns are a noob weapon, how do you come to the conclusion that they lack the skill and knowledge to use a shotgun?

I think the Dunnig-Kruger Effect does exist in PS2 and other games, but you can't automatically attribute a complaint about a weapon or strategy to it.

I never said that. If you think I said that then quote me. As the previous reply states, this video has nothing to do with complaining. Complaining about things is not a cognitive bias.

When I say a weapon is skill-less I'm not saying that the weapon is a sentient being who may or may not have skill. I'm say that using said weapon requires no skill to use effectively. And when I say "no skill", I'm talking about any important skills you would associate with its intended effect. Pressing a button is not one of those. Pressing a button under the right context or at the right time is one.

Saying that there are people who refuse to acknowledge their defeat because X weapon was involved (and that it is cognitive bias) is legitimate.

Saying that it is the same for people who say "X weapon is bad for this game because it is too effective for how easy it is to use", is not. I was trying to determine if you were saying this with my last post.

You didn't give an example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect in your video. Every example you did give in support of your hypothesis is inconclusive and debatable. I'm not going to quote you because it's annoying, but you said that people who complain about weapons are exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger Effect. I'm telling you to prove it.

This thread went over so well on Reddit you had to post it here as well.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2nd6uw/dunningkruger_effect_in_planetside/

TLDR;
You don't understand what the Dunning-Kruger Effect actually is.

Planetside 2 is not comparable to chess and the way he's comparing them is just wrong.

Chess has a limited number of each unit, PS2 your whole platoon can pull MAXes/tanks/air all at once. Chess, all pieces are controlled by one player, PS2, one player per unit so...you may as well pick the powerful units.

TL;DW - use shotguns or you're a noob

Your comparison to chess is flawed. At any time in the chess match both players have access to all their pieces, while in planetside you choose to spawn as a certain class with certain equipment. Sure, you can redeploy/restock at terminal, but not mid combat.

E.g. if I turn corner as engineer and see a MAX face to face I can't instantly respawn as HA and use my rocket launcher on him, same as he can't activate his infiltrator cloak and escape if engaged at long range.

Chess comparison would make more sense if we were talking about a greater scheme. Squad vs squad, where individual pieces are players. Then you could say, that squad leader that uses Light Assaults only and complains that the squad who uses all available classes is OP and takes no skill, is suffering from Dung-Crater effect. But nobody actually complains about it.

So I'm pretty sure that, from the standpoint of a pawn, second tier pieces are indeed overpowered and take no skill, and the fact that anyone can spawn as second tier piece at any time doesn't really solve the issue.

There's no issue for us to solve. We're just players, we don't make the game, we play the game we are given. No attempt to solve an issue, only an observation into the mentality of some players who refuse defeat when they have clearly lost.