[Suggestion] Failstorm (SMG) Revamp ?

Be it TR/VS/NC there is one point that everyone agrees to: The Hailstorm is the worst SMG in the game, therefore it's nicknamed "Failstorm". Even the hated NS7-PDW is an upgrade to it, it's just that bad. I have a few ideas how to make it a weapon with appeal:

• Hailstorm goes down one damage tier (112): It might sound unusual or even ridiculously UP, but SOE already showed with the Lynx and TORQ that they intend to give TR lower damage tier weapons with high RoF and high accuracy in the future. The Hailstorm might follow this pattern. It might become a bigger Repeater/T4AMP, but why not?
• Extremely high RoF: If you think that the Lynx fires fast, wait until you see this baby: I'm not %100 sure, but I remember Higby saying that 1000 RPM is the highest RoF the game engine can support. So why not? Because you never can have enough Dakka.
• Magazine size: The Hailstorm already has 10 more bullets than it's supposed counterparts, but it makes it in no way competitive with them. And with the increased RoF and lowered damage per bullet, it really needs more ammo. 70 bullets per magazine would be amazing, 65 would be more "balanced" and won't cause the usual "OP! OP!" whines. But knowing SOE, it'll probably stay at 60. At least reduce reload times.
• Accuracy/Recoil: This has to be seriously improved before anything else. Just look at how smooth the TORQ/Lynx handles. And they are quite accurate. That's what SOE should be aiming for.

All in all, I want the Hailstorm to be a effective and interesting weapon without giving off the feeling that you knowingly nerfing yourself by using it. Please give me your constructive feedback. (Especially from experienced users of this PoS gun.) Let's make this -almost- useless gun usable.

I'd say give it a 143 dmg model and slash the magazine size to 50. Fixed.

That would be nice. A real sustained spray SMG for TR. My main issue with the HS is that even with a compensator and grip, it moves all over the place ADS.
Yes, its a SMG, but this is in a completely different league compared to the rest of SMGs with the same setup.
Love using SMGs as short range carbines. Especially the Cyclone and PDW.

If they decide to change it, i hope they do it gradually and dont go overboard and make it OP.

After checking all the charts on the oracle of death, do you know what I noticed?
It actually has practically the same stats on every, single, stat. There are two big differences though. It is taken much, much less than the others, and the kills seem proportionally lower too. It follows the exact same rise and fall during prime times and such as the other weapons though.
There is one other thing that has to be mentioned, and that is a slightly higher average BR. They might skew the stats a bit upwards, but I'm sure it is only by a small margin. All in all I think the weapon is fine.

I disagree. The TTK is simply too long. Of course one can kill with it, but there is literally no reason to pick it over any of the other options available. It tries to behave like a sustained fire squad support weapon (a role it can't possibly fill due to dropoff and mediocre accuracy) while also failing to deliver as a CQC platform (which it should be in the first place).

I like it

Pro-tip: Repost this on reddit

If you do that, it becomes an Eridani++, and you have to upgrade the original (itself a bit lacking compared to Sirius). The OP's idea is sounder (some 950-ish rpm/112dmg thing) in my opinion.

KPU http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
Kills http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kills&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
playtime http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=playtime&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
Uniques http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=uniques&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
KPH http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
Q1 KPU http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q1kpu&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
Q2 KPU http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q2kpu&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
Q3 KPU http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q3kpu&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
Q4 KPU http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001
Average BR http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=avgbr&weapon1=27001&weapon2=28001&weapon3=29001

To facilitate you, I've put all the relevant stats above.
Regardless of your subjective feeling, it is performing quite good. It scores less on outright amount of kills, but this is a direct relation to less playtime. You can also see that there are less unique pulls, but this is directly related to the playtime.
You can also see one interesting thing. On the Q4 it seems to have equalled out. On Q1 it seems to do only slightly less than the others, but beginners have so much to learn. On Q2 and Q3 the difference seems about 1,5 kills per unique less. You know what is also an important aspect of KPU? Playtime! Less playtime means less KPU, so it seems to even out.
But wait, what is this? The line at KPH seems to be very equal? So you get about the same amount of kills per hour with the 'failstorm' as with the faction specific equivalents? How can this be, for such a bad weapon? Because in reality, it isn't a bad weapon.
You really want to buff this weapon, because it feels less powerful and has a higher TTK, while from the stats it does not seem to matter. This weapon is well within margin's to be considered an equal to the other faction specifics, so there is no reason to touch it. Your 'medicore accuracy' and 'bad dropoff' seems equally present in the other weapons if I look at the stats. If it doesn't fulfil the CQC or the sustained fire squad support like you said, it offers something else that brings it up to the same stats.

I think that this SMG need to be more accurate and more effective at range first. I can't hit a **** with this gun and i am used to inaccurate guns. It should emulate the TORQ9 but adapted to close ranges.
On the other hand i love the 7PDW, people hate it?

Hailstorm is not a complete **** gun but it is the worst of all factions and guess why people dont use it as much as the other SMGs. Because it is bad. Right now there is no reason to use it over PDW/Armistice.[/quote]

The Cyclone is an upgrade to every other SMG in the game and somehow people don't complain. Ok then - lower the ROF to 750, which (IIRC) is on par with the Eridani.

What do you not get about "it might be worse than the other factions, even if the stats don't support that, but it is in no way so bad it needs a revamp"?
Further, you don't give any good arguments why it is bad, except that you have a feeling it is bad or something. Let me correct that for you. If you can convince me my next arguments are bad, or other factors that make this thing really bad, than I'll support you. Keep in mind that your state of mind nor your own skill is a sufficient reason to change anyone's mind.
I grabbed the Planetside wikipedia for the next.
This thing falls 45 bullets a minute behind the others. So the 'failstorm' shoots 13,33 bullets a second. The others shoot 14,08 bullets a second. Meaning he lags behind 0,75 bullets. This round is pumped out a whopping 0,056 seconds later. That is quicker than an average mouse click. As damage values are the same at distances and we include things as the latency, this is a negligible difference. In return, you get a higher mag size.
Your accuracy both aiming and hipfire is exactly the same. Whoa what is this? One of the main points is invalid?
Also, it has the best short reload, but the worst long reload. Only emptying your large mag will activate a disadvantage there.

So lets recap. A negligible lower rate of fire, no problems with accuracy in hipfire and ADS, best short reload and a bigger mag than the others. Shall we add something? The TTK!

You need 8 bullets to kill someone up close for all these SMG's. 8*125=1000. A bullet goes out every 0,075 seconds, so we will do that times 8. 0,6 seconds kill potential. The others shoot a bullet every 0.071 seconds. They kill every 0,57 seconds. Again, 0,03 seconds is negligible if you take latency and lag issues in account. A lag of 30 ms is ten times bigger!
Now at max distance. Hold on to your horses, this is going to get rough.
This time, you need 11,9 bullets, or 0.893 seconds to kill for the 'failstorm'. For the others, you need 0.845 seconds to kill. A difference of 0,048! A rise of 0,012 seconds!
That difference will increase with small arms armour, but will always be negligible differences. The latency and your lag matter much more than that one bullet you will fire in less than a tenth of a second.

So you are arguing about not being able to out shoot people on less than a tenth of a second. Being battle ready is more important, and you do both multiple tenths of a second longer with one mag if you really need to, and your short reload makes you also multiple tenths of a second ready earlier than the other SMG's.
Your fail is in not seeing this thing as it is, not in the weapon itself.

Edit: I made a mistake, it has both a shorter 'long' and 'short' reload. My bad, it is basically an upgrade or equal in everything but the 0,056 seconds it needs to fire it's next bullet to get on par with the rest every second..

What is the Hailstorm?

Cyclone is considered as such probably because it packs more damage/clip.Of course the 167dmg tier is a tad better for HS TTK too, i don't think that's the main thing about it.
If you put all gen1 smgs on a virtual 143 dmg level, Eridani has its 25 rounds obviously, Armistice would have 26 and Cyclone would have 29. 30x143 is pretty standard clip size in the VS arsenal or even some NC weapons (GD7-F, Carnage), and you'll note that nobody considers the directive VS carbine/AR as very powerful (which i read have 25rounds/clip), while Betelgeuse (which i read has 40 rounds/clip) seems way ahead of any LMGs.

I also forgot to say that since gen2 smgs on VS/NC have more damage per clip and higher RoF+lower damage/bullet, that would make the OP's idea consistent with them.

I actually posted it on Reddit first. The Official Forum was an afterthought. Sad but true. Devs don't seem to care about the Official Forum anymore (except RadarX because he is the Community Manager) and prefer Reddit and Social Media like Twitter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2muvj6/suggestion_failstorm_smg_revamp/

The damage per clip is *far* less important than people claim it to be. SMGs are meant to provide a rapid burst of damage, not sustained fire. The Cyclone is considered creme de la creme because of it's superb ROF for a 167 dmg weapon and the resulting stellar TTK. It can also reach out to semi PDW-7 ranges which goes a long way towards nullifying the inherent weakness of SMGs.

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not lobbying for the Hailstorm to be remade into an OP bundle of tear-flavoured awesome; what I'm saying is that there is a sound reason why this gun is underused on TR and generally considered subpar by NC and VS alike.

So, straight upgrade to Blitz and Sirius? I mean, 1 damage tier up with only 10 bullets less?

That was a hasty statement, but in essence it still stands. Up the damage tier, reduce magazine size and adjust ROF accordingly.
Basically I'd like it to be similiar to the Eridani, rather than a nerfed Armistice.

Then 25 mag size, not 50. And reduced RoF

~910 RPM at 112 damage would be roughly equal to what the Blitz/Sirius outputs. Needs about 65 rounds to be on par for damage per magazine.