VS and the religious element

I'm not sure exactly where you're going with this....

We've long since departed from scifi lore (which many players are unsatisfied with and just chose to ignore) and are now disucssing real-world scientists and method of scientific theory....

to which I'm wondering....

where are you going with this?

His physics example was just that, an example (a particularly good one), but it holds true for all areas of science.

If a study is made and the results don't fit with what is expected, but cannot be explained, the results are not thrown away, they're sidelined until there can be better understanding of what it was that caused the result that wass not expected.

Answer this question; does it make any sense to use experimental weapons when conventional weapons that necessarily must be easier to make are just as good?

You;re making up tons of lore all you own now, completely off canon, and definitely biased against Vanu.

I'm sure your corporate masters handed you a pamphlet on the whole thing.

Of course, but the faith is in that there won't be a contradiction, or that the contradictions that do exist don't falsify what has been verifiable.

Well, ultimately the point is to prove that religious fanaticism and/or cultlike worship is incompatible with a faction composed of scientists. It's honestly gone far off-point, except to say that the faith of what scientists believe currently is limited to their own understanding of things. A race of highly advanced aliens would disturb that faith, especially if it changed their current view of science, no?

The moment you can give scientists a reason to think the trends that are self-evident in literally everything that has ever existed will change, or even can change, that viewpoint will be considered.

The only reason science works is because things don't change and stay consistent with logic.

Enter Vanu, stage left.

No, their knowledge would simply blow ours out of the water and scientists would work to accommodate it. Aliens, no matter how advanced, will not have magic. They could be able to locally distort time and space, alter the laws of physics and create new universes, but nothing they do can ever (ultimately) contradict science.

Uhm, no. I don't think it would disturb anything.

It would open up new possibilities. It might offer new insights.

But you're misusing the word "faith" there.

I can't explain my point without being insulting or dismissive to several billion inhabitants of the planet which may be viewing the forums, but that's not how "faith in science" works.

It doesn't get "disturbed" by new revelations. I cannot fathom a single discovery of science that would lead to occultism of even modern intelligent people, let alone people several hundreds of years in the future with more science and explanation to show why such ideology would be frivelous and ridiculous.

Define magic for me, please.

VS OP, pls nerf.

Back on topic, the Vanu are the good guys. We got science and spandex and ****.

Something outside the productive capabilities of nature.

New science wouldn't go against all scientific theory.

Even if it did, it would still follow immutable laws because that's what science is. And somehow, the new revelations would have to completely explain how all the science we did know made sense in the context we knew it when we are shown the wider angle.

Faith and science, even by your definition, are not mutually exclusive. Science and magic, so long as both are physical phenomena with consistent rules, are the exact same thing. If directed by a race of more advanced aliens to pursue this ideology for the benefit of mankind, why should it be? If it's good enough for Vanu, why shouldn't it be good enough for man, no?

Enter quantum physics, stage right.

Sure. If you have faith that your investment in prototype weapons might somehow pay off in the future. Doesn't necessarily mean that they're instantly going to smash the opposition. Right now the VS weapons seem to be at the development stage where they're comparable to NC and TR weapons, so they might as well go ahead and use them. They're not better and not worse, and not even more expensive (cert/nanite costs being roughly the same). A VS assault rifle costs about the same as an NC or even NS assault rifle. Doesn't suggest that there is necessarily a higher cost.

I'm just speaking of possibilities. And you've yet to present evidence in the lore that VS weapons actually are superior.

I simply know two things: what the lore says and what the game has. In my mind those two things are perfectly compatible with reasonable assumptions. And until you can present direct evidence from the lore to the contrary, I'll prefer my "compatibility" approach over the "at odds" approach that you seem to be using.

I mean isn't that the entire point of "rebirthing" in PS2? It's a figment of lore that explains a game mechanic. Those two things were designed to compliment each other. In the same way I feel as if the VS reliance on unstable and unproven alien technology explains why their weapons are not more effective than NC or TR options.

ya'll better start worshipping now, son!

SUBMIT WORSHIP SERVE!

SUBMIT WORSHIP SERVE!

SUBMIT WORSHIP SERRRVE!

What could possibly happen that is outside of the productive capabilities of nature?

Faith and science (reason/methodological rationalism) are literally direct opposites. They could not be more different.

Then what you're describing isn't magic, it's science. Magic is something outside the productive capabilities of nature.

If you were to materialize something out of thin air in violation of the law of conservation of energy, that would be magic. Of course, it would be impossible to demonstrate this, as it is entirely possible some super-advanced technology took the energy from another universe or something.

We don't know anything about the Vanu, only that one of their kind spoke to Briggs in a brief "telepathic" conversation.

Nothing, by definition, which is my point.

Magic does not exist.