VS and the religious element

The cargo cults are hardly a good comparrison. Why's that?

They may not have been "stupid", but they were UNDENIABLY ignorant of technology.

We are NOT ignorant of technology. We can imagine, and even theorize, at technology weel and FAR beyond our capabilities.

If some foreign technology was introduced to us, our reaction would not me "OMFG! IT'S GOD!!!" (well, some dip****s might...) but rather "HOLY FRACK THAT'S SOME ADVANCED TECH WE DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW THAT'S POSSIBLE, but... obviously... it IS possible. How can we steal it and kill it's owners?"

There is a MASSIVE theological difference in the 2.

MASSIVE.

Well, how far in the past are we talking? And how much of the present are we considering? Someone already mentioned Clarke's third law. The primary difference between science and magic is understanding. Now, if magic were to exist, given that it's hypothetical existence is a verifiable physical phenomena, would it not also be subject to the scientific method, at least so far as confirming whether or not this method could be applied? If the scientific method was applicable to it, then the words 'magic' or 'science' are largely irrelevant. The only relevant piece of information would be what was revealed.

So, given that Vanu, a dead alien, can contact scientists telepathically with means beyond their understanding, unless they can find out the 'trick' behind this, neither 'science' nor 'magic' would be relevant terms, only that the event is, without a doubt, occurring. The lore doesn't elaborate on what Vanu says, but either way, simple scientific logic would obviously need to be suspended, or else it must be assumed that some mass insanity is taking place. Given that, in this situation, the insane ones are the ones coming out with the verifiable physical discoveries, so far as science is concerned, to whom would it be more wise to listen to?

Just sayin.

Really now...

So tell me. Back in... say the 1980s. Who had thought that the iPod or iPhone or drones or 3D printers would be the next big thing? Obviously no one, because in general most people are horribly inept at predicting future technologies. Who knew that "social media" would be the focus of the early 21st century?

These things are so amazing because no one significant could have credibly foretold them. Instead back in the '80s we were dreaming of flying cars and jetpacks and stuff. Lotta good that did us.

Now if I were to ask you today to just predict the cutting edge technology of the year 2100, could you do that? Not even explain how it would work, but just describe what the next "big thing" was going to be?

Probably not. Because people are just terrible at foretelling the future.

Now let's say I asked you to predict technological trends 1,000, 10,000, or a million years from now, made by a civilization that isn't even human. Any guesses?

And if I asked you how it worked? You might get a little fuzzy-brained and volunteer, "well I think this part here... does something... and then... ummm..."

No. You'd have no clue. At all. And that's because for all intents and purposes, sufficiently advanced technology is magic. Magic, is is usually defined, is simply doing something "supernatural" to influence the state of the world. The only difference between technology and magic is whether that act is supernatural or not, and advanced technology beyond our understand (possibly even perception) is indeed magical.

I tell you straight up that "Magic" would NEVER enter into my description of anything.

EVER.

Except maybe some peoples actual beli.... nvm, I'm gonna stop there.

Just because I can't explain how something is done does not, by ANY means, mean that I will consider it "Magical". It would be "Tehcnologically superior" which is to say, something achievable for us as well we just need to figure out how.

You know, kinda like what the VS are doing... breaking down alien tech trying to figure out how the hell the crap works so we can reproduce it and make it our own.

BUT without any idiotic "religious zealotry"

BTW: Cut the rest of your post as it seems entirely off-topic and pointless.

I don't see how it requires faith to come to a "we don't know for sure but this is the best we can do" conclusion. That's not any sort leap of faith, it's just recognizing our own ignorance and limitations.

And as I said before, whatever you happen to believe or not believe may be irrelevant to the direction that the society takes.

Maybe you'll be one of the enlightened scientists sitting in the labs doing research. Maybe you'll be one of the scientists in the board room wondering how they'll trick the grunts into fighting.

Or maybe you'll be dead because some religious hotshot with much more emotional and personal appeal convinced those silly grunts that he was the spokeperson of the Vanu and the voices told him that you were a non-believing heretic.

The main point is that the VS grunts do believe in Vanu as some sort of religious/cultish figure as evidenced by the game. Maybe you don't, but it's clear that they do. And they probably do it for the reasons that I've outlined above, which occur both historically as well as in other works of science fiction.

They don't though, it's explicitly stated that "They weren't gods, just aliens" (paraphrase). They revere them, not worship them.

When you take your own conclusions based on your possibly erroneous observations and use them to build a spaceship, that is faith.

That quote of course comes from the top (chairman I think). It is not indicative of what the majority of the VS believe, nor possibly even what they believe since that quote was made.

The in-game voice scripts are better indications of what VS soldiers commonly believe, and many of those are religious in nature.

The 'faith' part comes in when, considering your own ignorance and limitations, that the rules won't change suddenly, or perhaps don't apply, due to something beyond your understanding. Though we may have faith that these physical rules and laws are observably unchanging, seeing as that we're limited to subjective experience, that's the best we can do.

Furthermore, the distinction is irrelevant. There's no reason why a cult devoted to highly advanced aliens, even corporeal ones, especially among scientists couldn't happen.

The entire point of the thread being WHY does the VS in game supposedly have this belief when the over-whelming majority of PLAYERS who control them can't comprehend the idiocy of cultism, and WHY we all chose to ignore the stupid game lore to that end.

Because it's STUPID.

OVERWHELMING MAJORITY feel this way. Anyone that does buy into the zealotry BS usually does so tongue in cheek, or as a TR/NC playing their VS alt.

WE, the PLAYERS, don't understand this RIDUCLOUS concept that's been thrust upon the faction. This concept that really doesn't make much sense because we're not technologically incompetent islander natives, we're spacefaring effing species ourselves.

Oh, and the scientists ARE the ones with the guns. The whole "no-death cause revival" thing kinda removes the risk of putting scientists on the front line. The VS is supposed to be, lore wise, the smallest faction by an incredibly large margin.

The war has been going on for ten years, I doubt the mass consensus has radically changed.

Also, why would a technocratic communist cult who quasi-worship technology and science not educate its constituents on things this important? Christ even Scientologists do that. The Vanu aren't even that numerous if the lore is to be believed; they leverage super-powerful technology and small groups of elite soldiers to fight off larger numbers of NC and TR soldiers. The entire Vanu Sovereignty is the elite in a sense.

They speak using linguistic conventions they've made up in the decades since they were stranded, based on something that is central to their ideology. When I say "goddamn it" or "Jesus Christ" I'm not literally invoking either deity/whatever as a nonbeliever, it's just something you say.

I'm sure some of the Vanu soldiers worship the aliens, as some of the NC soldiers are bloodthirsty terrorists while some TR soldiers are basically SS officers. But a large portion are scientists and their followers, who mirror the NC freedom fighters and TR hopefuls.

Taking risks doesn't necessarily = having faith.

You don't need to believe the rules/laws of nature/reality are concrete to work with them as they are/as you understand them currently.

You guys clearly aren't scientists. You sound like you'd fit right in with the NC.

Of course not. But to continue working with them, you must believe they won't change. If they changed, or could change, you'd have to work under completely different assumptions.

That's hardly scientific of you. "The world doesn't work the way I want it to work so I am going to simply ignore all evidence to the contrary to my conclusions."

No wonder why the VS can't get those plasma weapons to work right... with a mentality like that...

It's not risk, it's time. When you're behind a rifle shooting at spacemans, that means you're not in a lab studying whatever alien artifacts you should be studying.

Likewise there are no risks for an NC CEO or TR general from picking up their weapon of choice and blasting away, but there is a cost for doing so; namely that they're not doing their specialized job that no normal grunt can do. This is why you don't see them on the battlefield. Same reason why VS scientists aren't out there.

I would figure that such logic would have been self-evident, but apparently not...

I dont' fight for corporate shills.

That's why I quit the US Army as a matter of fact (True story)

Then put on your wizard hat, and start thinking like a high scientist. You clearly lack in imagination. You think you're good enough for Vanu?

Pretty sure the BR100 ranks for TR/NC imply high leadership positions like General and/or CEO or w/e......

Anyways, as I was saying, the point is not what the lore is, but rather that we, the VS players, disagree with it and find it dumb and silly, as well as nonsensical.

So we voluntarilly just ignore it. Because it's just background lore in a game with almost no REAL lore. It's nonsense. We make up our own crap anyways. OR we just don't really care.

Point is, no one (or very few) fighting on the VS buys into the idiotic backstory we're given