The EM1 is why TR and VS suck

Here are some usage stats to mull over and draw random conclusions from:

KPH http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=7232&weapon2=7235&weapon3=7236

Q4 KPU http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=7232&weapon2=7235&weapon3=7236

Anyway, the EM1 is a bit of joke on NC. Yeah, you can still kill people with it and it's not the worst gun you could farm an auraxium with it. But it's just not very good compared to the beastly 167 tier guns NC has.

That's what most of VS and TR's LMGs are like along with a good chunk of their AR and Carbine options. Pea shooters with poor TTK and mediocre accuracy.

167dmg / 600 RoF options are just better at everything 143 tier that's under 750 RoF. Higher vertical and lower horizontal recoil is also favorable for players with a decent amount of experience. You can compensate for vertical, you can't do much other that tap fire harder to try to counter horizontal recoil.

All I'm really asking for here, is that each faction get a 167/600 gun for each primary, with typical 167/600 trappings - .175 horizontal recoil, extended min damage range, and so on.

You could make rough clones of the Mercenary, Gauss Rifle, EM6 or Anchor as NS weapons with a small tweak of lower velocity and faster reload or whatever minor "it's not a clone" difference there has to be.

I guarantee TR and VS would quickly be dropping their Bulls, Rhinos, CARV-S, Polaris, Equinox, CME, T5 AMC, etc. etc. to use such weapons. Particularly for the Heavy Assault though, as there aren't any 800-845 RoF LMGs to make up for the 143 tier's deficiencies with lower TTK.

I wouldn't drop a CARV or Orion for an Anchor.

167/600 is pretty nice, but when you are in a 1v1 firefight, both being heavies, one with an Anchor, one with a CARV, for example, both using their Resist Shield, both getting headshots, the 143/750 is going to win out barring any crazy clientside latency shenanigans.

This is false, TTK with headshots is lower for 167 dmg tier - and they have better accuracy for landing headshots. The difference is minimal but slightly in favor of 167/600.

EM6 / Anchor Headshot TTK = 0.2 seconds
Orion / Carv / MSW Headshot TTK = 0.24 seconds

I would drop a CARV for Anchor in a heartbeat. Orion...okay no, but Orion has been the LMG outlier since forever due to .75 ADS and still pretty good accuracy for its RoF.

TR and VS suck because of one flavor of weapons?

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=1924&weapon2=1894&weapon3=1879

Clearly NC and TR suck because of this flavor of weapons!

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=4&weapon2=14&weapon3=20
Starting ARs (including Gauss) all track roughly the same

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=3&weapon2=43&weapon3=44
Starting Carbines (including the Mercenary) all track roughly the same with a small outlier spike on the Trac5

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=7235&weapon2=80&weapon3=79
EM6, Orion, and T9 all track roughly the same (EM6 only being a start weapon if you had Alpha Squad, otherwise you have to unlock it, and the NC6 Guass Saw underperforms compared to the other starting LMGs as seen below)

http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=q4kpu&weapon1=78&weapon2=80&weapon3=79



So... you're point was what again?

You don't seem to be understanding the post. You are linking irrelevant weapons. This is about the clusterfudge of crappy sub-750 RoF weapons on TR and VS.

Orion and Betel are overpowered, SAW sucks as a starter weapon - I grant this easily but it has no relevance to my arguments.

Nah, I have a tank

I think we should all use NS everything and be painted different colors to signify factions at this point.

The EM1 may be wimpy, but it's great for zergy spamming. I pair it with grenade bandolier in my crowd pleaser loadout.

167 Damage weapons technically need 640-ish RPM to match the kill potential of 750 rpm 143 damage weapons.
It's balanced because the 167 damage weapons are more accurate, that's the way the EM1 is balanced. (Less recoil, higher accuracy) Just so you know, the EM1 is less controllable than the 652 rpm 143 damage weapons that TR and VS have. I also prefer the 577 rpm 167 damage weapons that NC have, because they're so ridiculously controllable. (Of which the TMG-50 preforms very similarly)

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but if TR and VS get 167 damage 600 rpm weapons, then NC should get an LMG and AR that have similar stats to that of the Bandit carbine. (167 damage, 632 rpm, and ,75 ads huehuehue) Because our 600 rpm 167 damage weapons are basically our faction trait.

The EM1 Rhino and Polaris are the accurate peashooter lmg, i already auraxiumed the rhino, personally i find a hate love relations¿hip with these guns

They need to take that site down people infer to much with to little information.

1. I would NEVER let go of my Polaris.
2. You really want the factions to be LESS unique? No thank you.
3. Just improve the accuracy of the weapons you call UP. Because the Polaris and such weapons are perfectly fine if you know how to use them.

Personally I see my highest CQC KPH from CARV (1.17) followed by Orion (1.04) and Anchor (0.95) and while I think those Anchor stats will overall trend a bit more closer to the others it's still not a CQC gun I like using (its strengths are spent on hipfire, and I tend to prefer ADS even right up close which is why the CARV with its ADS focus and high capacity works best for me.) I tend to offset the Anchor's weakness with Jackhammer usage (1.38 KPH) but naturally that's a bad choice at longer ranges.

Surprisingly I tend to see slightly better performance out of mid-range guns with extended mags: Flare (1.18), CARV-S (1.17), and EM6 (1.04). I probably don't have enough kills for my EM1's 1.07 KPH to be reliable, and I don't use it that often, but I also don't necessarily think it's all that bad.

But really I don't value damage/bullet at all.

I wouldn't mind giving the NC a 750/143 LMG if the other two factions received a 600/167 lmg.

Then again, SOE could just rework certain guns like the Rhino or Polaris to fit that role.

You seem to be missing the point of the faction trait system. Each empire has its own flavor, but as long as each faction performs fairly equally, it works out (the reason I posted the stats on those "irrelevant weapons"). With your "argument", we'll just end up with NS variants of everything, which will be boring.

I would love to see the EM1 become a 1787 DPS weapon like the Carv and Orion. NC does NOT have access to a single LMG that has 1787 dps. The Gauss SAW is 1667, which is our highest.

The EM1 should be our 1787 DPS option. Which means it should have 750 RPM and a 600m/s velocity. It would be nearly a Carv clone at that point though.

What I'd like for it to do is one of these two options:

Make it a 200 damage LMG with 1787 DPS, meaning its other stats stay the same, but its RPM is 536.
or
Make it a 167 damage LMG with 1787 DPS, meaning its other stats stay the same, but its PM is 642.

Both options would ensure the NC traits are intact, TR and VS aren't being infringed on. And we have a weapon on par with the Orion and Carv in their roles, but with higher damage and the need to land all shots (NC trait).

Before you all counter this, make sure you understand that the Carv, Orion, and EM1 all have the same ADS accuracy. So everything I suggested above isn't giving NC an advantage.

The only difference between the Carv and EM1 is the Carv has better DPS with slightly less velocity (50m/s difference). We've already got several Long Range options (EM6 and SAW), so I wouldn't mind seeing the velocity dropped to 600m/s in all examples above. Heck even 550m/s wouldn't be bad if its DPS was increased.

No, TR and VS don't really have much flavor between their infantry weapons, they're all very similar. TR are worse accuracy and reloads, VS have less rounds per mag. But that doesn't make that much difference, probably even a downside more than an upside for TR. And there's even less difference in LMGs since TR doesn't really get their trait applied there - all factions have high magazine capacity. And NS weapons are more like TR and VS weapons as well.

NC is the only faction that has a good variety of infantry weapons right now as well as really unique/interesting exclusive weapons - nothing on TR or VS compares to SAW/Reaper/AC-X11.

NC isn't overpowered or anything, but TR and VS are just boring relatively. They have some guns that are better than NCs, but there's a lot less diversity among their options so they all gravitate to the stronger variants of their bland guns.

The NC on these forums, deary me...

167/600 and 143/750 weapons TTK vary only .02-.04 seconds, the 750 RoF being better with bodyshots and the 167dmg being better with headshots.

167/640 weapons would have to be way less accurate and would be competing with 800-845 RoF guns not 750 RoF.


As for CARV/Orion/EM1, the EM1 has substantially lower horizontal recoil and vertical recoil. It's still an awful gun but you couldn't just slap an extra 100 RoF on it and call that balanced.

It's not lower when factoring in heavy shields.

Against non-heavies, yeah it's slightly quicker.

Heavy shield doesn't mitigate headshots, same goes for nanoweave.

It's the only thing keeping the HA remotely balanced.