Kill the pointless faction specific AP mine.

lol? You are not getting it man. All factions whine when their **** gets nerfed because who likes nerfs? VS, however, obviously took it a bit further and got called out on it via the Creative Director.

BB and PM have less dmg because they are 360 degrees. If they were nearly invisible, toning down that dmg and range seems fair to me, compared to the current claymore, which is more obvious than both the BB and PM, but can be more easily hid out of sight, but also only gets a dmg bonus because it's kill range is in only one direction.

Also, the game is not only played in chokepoints. I think I said that already.

Finally, like what someone else posted earlier in this thread, TR SMGs are underperforming compared to NC and TR. By your logic, we should buff them up right? Note that most of TR doesn't complain about this.

Why do you think I would object to buffing underpowered SMGs? I also think the TR AI MAX weapons need to be buffed as well. Are you surprised because I'm not as self-centered as you yourself are?

And the point you seem to be unable to comprehend whatsoever is that the 360 degrees is pointless. I don't want it. Nobody does. Its only purpose is as an overpowered area nuke, and not only is that totally cheesy and defeats the point of the weapon, but it still doesn't work well enough to match the killing power of the claymore.

The only effective way to use a mine as a mine requires placing it somewhere where it's not immediately obvious to the naked eye. That means behind some sort of obstacle. And do you know what happens to a 360 degree circle when you place it against an obstacle? It becomes a 180 degree semicircle. Weird.

I do like how you keep trying to pretend that the PM and BB should be getting fewer kills than the claymore BY DESIGN.

This is gonna be funny because I don't think they should be. They perform well enough, but the other factions simply have better options for them. This is faction identity. This is what I want more of.

It's the same when I speak about TR ARs and how most will agree that they are simply the best in class in the game.

It's why VS still has their .75 ADS Orion, and even though there is whine about it, I doubt that's going to change because that is faction identity.

Common sense != self-centered

Common sense? You basically just said that the Bouncing Betty and Proximity Mine should never be capable of being as effective as the Claymore. That if the BB and PM were buffed in damage, until the stats of KPU / KPH matched the Claymore exactly, you would say that they're overpowered.

You can make up hypothetical garbage all you want for how 360 degrees is apparently super-important, but the numbers outright prove that 360 degrees is not useful whatsoever.

FACT: The claymore is more effective than the prox mine or the bouncing betty.

Do you deny this?

??

Please quote where I said that.

Pretty sure I said that clays perform different from other mines to the point where their usage is different as well. Pretty sure I said that all mines have their own advantages and disavantages.

So please quote me.

Nope, but you're still missing the point.

Somehow I think that after the PPA got nerfed, ppl actually checked loads of statistics to find something from TR/NC to get revenge nerf on... PPA was a real issue, mines aren't. I find this whole mine hassle quite funny.

I don't quite follow why bring this up now (if you really aren't just after revenge nerf). I read 2 threads of this same matter, no idea if there are more, and to me it really seems that you just don't want to accept the fact that claymore is made to perform better at doorways. Ever tried placing VS/NC mines in grass or around the capture point, for example? You can't really expect same playstyle to work on every weapon in game.

I'm done with this. I cannot do this anymore. You are beyond help.

1) You admit that the claymore is killing way more people than the other two.

2) You refuse to acknoweledge in any way that the BB and PM should be buffed slightly until their KPH stats are identical to the CM.

3) In light of the fact that you admit the CM is more effective, and the fact that you have refused to accept ANY buff whatsoever to the PM and BB, you then claim that you "never said" that the VS and NC mines should be naturally inferior, despite the fact that you cannot believe in both #1 and #2 at the same time without being a total hypocrite.

I'm writing you off as either a troll or a fool.

Let me know when you're ready quote me.

TR SMGers are actually what is underperforming. I hate to say it but it is true. Compare MKV and NS-7 PDW across all 3 factions and TR are the constant underperformers in general.

I don't know it could just be because with the high RoF trait the good TR realize there is little need for an SMG so only the inexperienced players go for it maybe.

Additionally there is more flux to SMGs and TR is not always the underperformer. With AP mines there is no flux where TR drops bellow NC or VS ever.

There is also the matter that TR alone underperforms. What bearing 1 underperformer and 2 weapons better than it has to do with a case of 1 overperformer and 2 weapons worse than it has I don't know even.

the mines in general never need to be faction specific in a performance sense, its not like they are even interesting in the first place, just give the TR mine 360 degree detonation trigger and balance the damage out. in the majority of situations most mines are placed behind door frames/ corners/ top of stairs anyways. there is no reason to have one drop and forget mine require higher flack armor rank to survive then the other, it provides no real faction flavor IMO.

Would it be possible to pull up stats to check how often I am killed by claymores vs proximity mines (vs bettys just for the lulz)? If so and someone feels like substantiating my point for me, my name in-game is also Ceiu.

Anyway:
Claymores are good, but they don't need a nerf nor do the others need a buff. There are so many other things in the game that could use this attention and energy (see: redeployside, in my opinion). Stop with the "nerf all the things that kill me" threads, please.

Nah, Claymore is fine as it only is directionel not a full 360 damage degree.

Too bad fi you run into it and die. It's your fault use an implant or use EMP's before you enter a room and if you dont like to play infiltrator get one in your squad, not hard to counter those AP mines at all and none of them are OP. Yet, Vanu and NC mines some times dick into the ground and cant be seen, this doesnt happend with CM.

If anything, make a NS AP mine for all 3 factions to use.

CM are not OP it's lemmings that make explosives seem OP

AP mines got 2 very nice counters. Implant and EMP. Then normal counters as frag/anti vehicle grenade.

Just because you dont want to give up your fav implant doesnt mean CM are OP. In a squad make one who are going near a room or something have that implant and warn the squad/platoon, how hard can it be? Seriously!?

I think you missed the point.

Vanu and NC can run into a room place them and get kills all around it. A TR cannot do this because it's directional hence less will die.

They are balanced except for VS and NC ones some times cant be seen due to a bug.

Make a NS Sticky AP mine that can be placed on walls etc, could be fun and then shut up about it just because you run mindless into a room without looking for using the ingame functions to counter AP mines in genereal.

TR mines were underperforming before SOE decided to buff them, months back. Most people have accepted the fact that TR SMGs are simply not build in the same way the NC and VS ones are. Both NC and VS get a 167 SMG that can be used like psuedo carbine. TR does not.

However, the point was that they are under performing compared two the other factions. By this logic, they should be buffed. I don't think they need a buff though, because I believe that to simply be faction identity. They certainly aren't terrible(or at least as terrible make them out to be), but they aren't as good as the NC and VS ones.

That said, most people will agree that TR has the best selection of ARs in the game yet basically no one complains about that. This is faction identity.

You may argue that the old PPA was faction identity as well, but there is a point to where that line between identity and straight balance ends. The same with ZOE. Yes there might been overnerfs, but that can't be helped as we don't have direct control over the game.

No matter how you look at it, SMGs and mines for all factions are simply not ridiculously outdoing each other.

When I'm rolling with platoons I generally find that the TR throw Claymores around like confetti. They're on both sides of a door, two on the left, and one down the middle, and one poor soul stuck in the door pane. At least one of them will probably be facing the completely wrong direction. It's rarely effective because by this point it's absurdly obvious the door is mined to heck but, hey, at least they keep on chugging. I'm not even describing post-Directives behavior. The TR have behaved like this as far back as I can remember.

It probably differs from server to server but how irrationally exuberant are then NC and VS about their mine laying?

I am going to be honest here. Comparing the SMGs to AP mines is apples to oranges and is nothing but misdirection. AP mines have been consistent. If you check the SMGs they are all over the place and if you check the other metrics such as kills or average BR the Armistice performs average and previous top performers suddenly become bottom performers.

With AP mines only in Uniques does the Claymore ever fall behind and that is not considered a performance metric.

The 360 degree blast from the NC and VS mines means it's going to wipe out any friendlies who are in the area. When you mine a doorway, the blast is going to be on the OTHER side of the wall from where the enemy is coming from, which is going to be the side where the friendlies are at. On the other hand, you can literally stand on the claymore and not be affected.

I don't know why people think indiscriminate blast radius is an advantage. It's a defensive weapon, and being able to control where it's going to explode is pretty useful, especially when you're indoors.

A bouncing betty placed to defend a generator room is about as helpful as gluing a brick of C4 to the wall. One enemy is going to run in and everyone in the room gets blown up. The claymore has no such limitation.

That's probably a pretty big reason why the TR drops them everywhere.

So, "not very?"