TR, is it a joke?

I want this to be a constructive discussion.

Haters out.

Please put in arguments if possible.


After playing NC and VS I asked myself one question:

is TR a joke?


I am talking about recoil here.


TR weapons seem have uncompensateable recoil.

Nearly all of them have heavy left-right shake in addition to high vertical recoil and are useless after 20 meters range.


When I look at NC and VS weapons with consimilar stats, they all have one thing opposed to TR weapons:

- less recoil
- less shake
- more controlability


I was surprised how much playing NC and VS just seemed to be a point, click and wait for the headshots adventure.


As most NC and VS weapons primarily seem to recoil slightly up and to one side, it is easy to compensate it.



So why does TR have such a heavy recoil?


I kinda don't want to play TR anymore after having tried out NC yesterday in the smash.


Your enemy is 30 meters away?

NC: No problem!
VS: HAHAHA
TR: F*CK


While I have no problem landing shots on VS and NC weapons, I am really good at killing the air around my enemy, as the gun randomly kicks around so hard that you can barely keep your crosshair close to your enemy.


TR weapons are only good in small rooms, when you surprise your enemy.

And even if you surprise your foe, it often happens that you still get killed because you just were 20 meters away.



I kinda want my SC back and change to NC because I am so ****** of being killed because my gun is uncontrollable.


NC and VS weapons are good in any range, since they have low recoil.

TR has to decide:

- inside? -> heavy recoil gun, dead when outside
- outside? -> low recoil and ROF gun, dead when inside


Take a look at my Auraxiums:

- TRAC-5 -> only used in CQ
- Jaguar -> only used in CQ
- Hailstorm -> only used in CQ
- Armistice -> -> only used in CQ
- Trac-5 S -> mainly used on long range
- T5 AMC: -> mainly used on long range
- NC-11C -> mainly used on long range

TRAC-SHOT? good to pierce the air around your foe due to heavy random shake.
Lynx? No thanks, it recoils so hard it is terrible after 25 meters.
Cougar? I like to have a chance against my foe when inside.

Took you quite long to realize that. Yeah, TR weapons are worse, TR tank is worse, but at least it's all red!

Pretty much. For some mindboggling reason, SOE decided that weapons that do less damage per shot should have more horizontal recoil per shot.
VS 143 damage weapons aren't that much different from TR ones, they do tend to have less vertical recoil per shot, but vertical recoil is the least important recoil stat, unless it gets to absurdly high values.

TR usually compensates lack of accuracy with rate of fire and DPS, stats that are important in CQC. The only problem with that is NC too have super high RoF weapons except for an LMG, though that function is performed adequately by revered Anchor, and for everything else there is Jackhammer.

VS also don't really have much horizontal recoil or shake.

Thats the main point for accurate shooting.

I would never trade my prowler, for all its ugliness and disadvantages.

It has the best skill ceiling of the tanks while ALSO being very forgiving at the skill floor. (i.e. a vet constantly hitting both shots per reload, on the move, sliding down a hill, being chased by 2 harassers, and a scythe...versus a new tanker having a second "chance").

It is the best flanker against fortified armor positions. (mag is true best flanker but loses out versus the prowler when dealing with those "magical" scenarios - i.e. I just locked down behind 3 tanks with their backs to me and they do not know I'm there...)

They should just change the prowler's name to "Sega Genisis - Sunderer Murder edition".

For all of TRs wonkiness (especially at range) do not give up on the prowler.

You want to end up that vet able to slide down a hill, hitting all shots. Why? Because you WILL win that DPS race if you get good at it.

You do realize this is not a tank discussion?

I know. But one of the responders was saying ALL TR things suck.

Had to defend the prowler brah.

I am talking about INFANTRY weapons here.

I never said anything about tank or aircraft guns.

-_-

I did not quote you.

I was responding specifically to another poster within the thread but I guess I should of made my highlight more obvious. The plain bold does not stand out in the quote.

As for the guns.....

Which ones do you "hate"? In each set there is at least one I've tended to like.
Random horizontal recoil is what hurts our ranged ability but I've learned to just plain deal with it. 98% of my PS time has been spent red (just as in PS1) so it may just be that I've not played enough with the other empires to know we are "gun screwed".

I don't get it, you have weapons that specialize in certain areas and somehow thats different from NC? It just sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about, i'd also wager you don't really know how close 30m is and you're really talking about ranges of 50m or further.

There's no quit in a TR soldier!

NC guns are better allrounders due to low recoil.

Low recoil -> good inside, good on longer range

high recoil -> long range = bad cards

I suggest you actually play NC and use more of its arsenal before you make these stupid generalizations, recoil is almost a non factor at short range, where DPS is king because no gun in this game has enough recoil to matter at these ranges.

The Lynx actually has surprising low horizontal recoil. The problem is that it fires low damage bullets at such a high RoF along with the same bloom per shot of a 143 damage gun. And the fact that it just doesn't have the TTK of a GD-7F or Serpent or even the VX6-7 which matters a lot for a fragile run and gun CQC play-style. We're further behind in TTK than we were with 143/800. And it no longer has a significant damage per mag advantage either.

Cougar, the problem is that it has worse stats almost everywhere it counts than a Pulsar C or Razor. Compared to the Pulsar C it has worse starting horizontal recoil, it has no advanced grip, it has lower RoF, and it has a recoil angle and worse hip-fire. It does have a notable velocity advantage although only with HVA. However that velocity advantage goes away compared to the Razor which has 50 higher velocity and is otherwise nearly the same weapon with 5 fewer rounds per mag - and also better hip-fire.

Then there's the T5 AMC. It's basically a straight Razor downgrade. HVA factored in, it has the same velocity as Razor. But it has a worse recoil angle, a shorter minimum damage range and lower damage bullets which is inherently worse at range, and it gains a small damage per mag advantage and slightly lower vertical recoil. Not exactly great trade-offs for a mid-long, or really any range gun.

Both the Cougar and T5 AMC are low DPS without spectacular accuracy. So then we look at the Mercenary.

167 damage tier with typical drop-off advantage over the T5
.175/175 horizontal recoil which is lower than both T5 and Cougar even with grips accounted for
0/0 recoil angle, so no irritating pull to one side making subsequent headshots more difficult
600 RoF, which paired with 167 damage bullets gives a substantial TTK advantage over the T5 and Cougar - and Razor too admittedly

The main disadvantage is the velocity, but other than that it's a superior weapon in so many other ways.

TR really didn't get what they needed with the Cougar which was a Mercenary or Pulsar C competitor - and the T5 AMC just needed to be re-worked entirely. The T5 AMC and Cougar are mostly redundant now with the Cougar being sort-of better in most situations just @ 4x the cost. The T5 velocity advantage isn't enough to make up for the advantage of 167 damage rounds at range, and the Cougar's velocity is high enough with HVA @ 600.

Last but not least there's the poor old TRAC-5. The problem here is that both the Jaguar and the Mercenary are better. Merc is a superior all-rounder and much more accurate without losing much TTK. Jaguar is superior for closer ranges by a landslide and it has a more manageable recoil pattern while the TRAC-5 has a fairly dramatic right pull, more typical of 800-845 RoF weapons, that at least partially negates its lower overall horizontal recoil advantage. .75 ADS and soft point and smaller hip-fire CoF...Jaguar feels like a no brainer.

Entirely weapon / group dependent ..

For example some of the default starter weapons ( note this is just showing the recoil pattern and bias on full auto )



Cycler has easily the most controllable recoil

Meanwhile

The Trac-5 is by far the worst

what can a say TR is hardcore only expert players that want a challenge here
the best of the best

People play TR so they don't have to aim, at least we did at launch, then they nerfed hipfire, and bassically killed TR.
TR is the spray and pray faction, that is why they have bigger mags, to make up for those misses due to horizontal recoil.
Haven't you ever wondered why there are not a lot of good TR players, and why the ones that are play as groups of medics?

If you want bullets to go where you shoot, you play NC. Unfortunately the ROF is so slow that you will get wrecked by VS...

If you want a constructive discussion I want some weapon stats, where you back up your claims. It is very hard to argue against you when most of the things you post are personal opinions. I find it very hard to believe you struggle at 30 meters with TR weapons.

We do have the most shake on most weapons. It's the reason we get a few more bullets our guns are designed to miss more because of Random H-recoil.

A year ago that very same statement was all over the forums. Only it was about the NC. Sadly these things due the rounds as opposed to SOE actually achieving some sort of balance.

One part of me loves it, as at the same time lots of TR types where laughing and spouting L2P. Guess it's not as fun when your are on the receiving end. It's still not right though.

One thing I have noticed that sort of says it all: I've played a few server smashes now, including last nights (go Cobalt!). They do a 'coin toss' The winning server get to either chose fraction first or warp gate first. The other side then get first dibs on whatever the winner don't chose. So far, it seems, everyone chooses fraction if they win. And so far it seems every one chooses Vanu. The the losers always chose NC. I've not seen anyone choose TR as yet. (Though I have not looked at every match).

That does say a lot. On the whole I think the game is close to balance, but when you look in detail I do think I play the easiest fraction. Maybe in a year or so, the Vanu will be the pants fraction.

EDIT: Apparently Connery chose to play TR in one match.